Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[Rangers]

Wrong, he explicitely says it's rendering in 1080p:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEIp_8nxZLs -> 6m35s

Of course, if you're going to question everything that every Nintendo rep. says in order to sing your tales of disappointment to everyone, then this argument is pointless.



I have several half-confirmed rumours, only you have a gut feeling.
The difference is that the first has proven its worth, the second has not.




Nope, there hasn't been such a thing. There's been talk of "HD screen" in the controller, in the same way that there's a "HD screen" in PSV. Every time an actual resolution was mentioned, 960*540 or "a quarter of 1080p" were the numbers presented.
Check the presentation slides back in previous pages of this thread.

Reggie actually says Zelda is 1080p @6:38 ...when it's not. You're making my case. Are you even watching the clips? It's obvious Reggie has very little technical knowledge and further wants to talk as little as possible about the power of the new system.

Many of the rumors have been proved false (hard drive is one example). How does that make the rest any more reliable? Also I'm pretty sure I saw 1080P screens as a rumor at one point. HD usually is taken to mean 1080P. I havent seen PSV called an HD screen by a reputable outlet, either. But TBH, yeah the screens are almost certainly either 960X540, or 800X480 (interestingly, at one time I was correcting somebody who seemed to imply the controller screens would be 1080P!, Now I'm arguing with you claiming that I was right all along when I said 1080P controller screens was crazy talk, which I was). Interestingly those "rumors" you talk of say it's an R700 based GPU, so are you willing to accept that? Because now I see people speculating it's an HD 5000 based GPU.

Given the rumors plus logic I'll agree 960X540 is most likely, but it isn't confirmed.

OK OK I'd just like to stake it down here that I think Wii U will have an ~RV730 (which I already said like a month ago!). And that it's very possible only 512 MB RAM, though I can also see 1GB. Will you stake down what you think it contains as a GPU? So we can maybe declare a winner to this oneday
Of course I'm sure it wont have EXACTLY an RV730 because obviously something minor will be tweaked everybody knows that it's impossible for a pc gpu to fit directly into a console since it cannot interface correctly as console does not have pcie-e slot, and that will be the "out" for people to declare I was completely and totally wildly wrong, but whatever, I can live with that. I think it will have 320 sp's like RV730.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Apparently there can be only one tablet controller for each console, for multiplayer the rest has to use Wiimotes. That is a serious flaw in the concept IMHO, however it's probably because of bandwidth and 3D rendering limits so makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Reggie actually says Zelda is 1080p @6:38 ...when it's not. You're making my case. Are you even watching the clips? It's obvious Reggie has very little technical knowledge and further wants to talk as little as possible about the power of the new system.

So you're claiming Reggie is lying\ignorant about the 1080p resolution output because there's this one single pic of Zelda that was posted @ 1280*720p?!
Oh come on...

OK OK I'd just like to stake it down here that I think Wii U will have an ~RV730 (which I already said like a month ago!). And that it's very possible only 512 MB RAM, though I can also see 1GB. Will you stake down what you think it contains as a GPU? So we can maybe declare a winner to this oneday
Of course I'm sure it wont have EXACTLY an RV730 because obviously something minor will be tweaked everybody knows that it's impossible for a pc gpu to fit directly into a console since it cannot interface correctly as console does not have pcie-e slot, and that will be the "out" for people to declare I was completely and totally wildly wrong, but whatever, I can live with that. I think it will have 320 sp's like RV730.

Performance isn't dictated by the GPU alone, clocks and memory bandwidth play a big part too.

After seeing the Garden demo rendering on both the TV and the controller different screens, I bet on either ~950MHz RV730, ~500MHz RV740 or better. 500MHz RV770 @ 32nm could be spending less than 20W (gpu alone). That's not too far-fetched either.

 

[hoho]

So you're claiming Reggie is lying\ignorant about the 1080p resolution output because there's this one single pic of Zelda that was posted @ 1280*720p?!
Oh come on...

Humans make errors all the time.
What would be the rational reason behind specifically rendering Zelda at 720p for the web instead of e.g downscaling native 1080p screenshot or simply just posting that 1080p image instead?

 

[Quaz51]

So you're claiming Reggie is lying\ignorant about the 1080p resolution output because there's this one single pic of Zelda that was posted @ 1280*720p?!

Zelda demo is 720p upscaled in 1080p, no doubt
and when "communication guys" talk resolution, ALWAYS talk output resolution, never native rendering resolution

 

[patsu]

Zelda demo is 720p upscaled in 1080p, no doubt
and when "communication guys" talk resolution, ALREADY talk output resolution, never native rendering resolution

Dear sir, good to have your service here again.

Hope to see a detailed specs by TGS.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

In addition to a few mini-games and one major franchise cinematic, Nintendo's presentation to me included a couple sequences designed to show off the power of the system and the innovative applications of the controller. The first, simply called "HD Experience," featured a hawk soaring through a traditional Japanese setting including cherry blossom trees and a temple. Graphically the scene was far better than Wii, of course, but I wasn't impressed at all with the quality of the textures or aesthetic design. For something that was supposed to demonstrate the power of the system, this particularly sequence failed to impress. One noteworthy element was that the tablet controller was replicating the visuals on the TV on its smaller screen, and moving the tablet would cause the camera behind the hawk to move, allowing the player to see more of the landscape.

The rough shape of this demo is no cause for concern, however. At the end of my time with the new system, Nintendo played an interactive cinematic that put all my fears to rest. The difference in quality between that sequence and this was light years apart, making me wonder why I watched the hawk video in the first place.

The second major tech demonstration featured live footage of Japan, with a camera moving down a crowded street, hovering above vehicles. Like the hawk demo, the tablet was also featuring the footage shown on the television. But as I moved the new controller, I was able to see more of the city around me, without altering what was being shown on the larger screen. I could move the tablet upward to see the sky, or downward to see the street moving under me. Even more impressive, I could start to rotate the controller or "aim" it behind me to see where I had been. Pressing a button would also flip the portable display behind me, allowing me to see backwards similar to a rearview mirror. The potential for racing games with this sort of technology is truly impressive.

I wonder why this "City" demo hasn't been shown yet.

 

[borowki]

What are the chances that all they have are empty cases and the actual HW (devkits) running these games are hidden? It would seem quite weird to me if they have a fully working HW and still need at least a year before they actually release it.

How much effort would it take to rework the Wii motherboard for the Wii U?

 

[patsu]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/06/08/wii_u_pricing/

Nintendo left out many of the finer details about Wii U at the system's announcement yesterday. Among the major points: price.

In an interview with Nikkei (registration required), however, Iwata did share what appears to be a rough lower limit, saying that Nintendo does not plan on selling the device for the same price as the current Wii.

...

Iwata also told Nikkei that he doesn't expect the Wii to immediately disappear following the Wii U's release, suggesting that Nintendo plans on offering the current system for at least a limited time after its successor is on the market.

 

[Mobius1aic]

So you're claiming Reggie is lying\ignorant about the 1080p resolution output because there's this one single pic of Zelda that was posted @ 1280*720p?!
Oh come on...






Performance isn't dictated by the GPU alone, clocks and memory bandwidth play a big part too.

After seeing the Garden demo rendering on both the TV and the controller different screens, I bet on either ~950MHz RV730, ~500MHz RV740 or better. 500MHz RV770 @ 32nm could be spending less than 20W (gpu alone). That's not too far-fetched either.

I'm beginning to think it's something like a Redwood or Turks GPU, hopefully Turks. You get the benefits of the better Tessellation hardware from Turks and the general excellent multiscreen capabilities that began with Evergreen. While I have not seen anything on Wii U that couldn't be done with an R700 as far as the multi screen stuff goes, I would think Evergreen or beyond GPU would certainly make it easier and faster to implement. Of course Turks and Redwood are nothing too substantial as far as general GPU capability goes, but from what we've seen as far as visuals go, at 720p, it's certainly plausible, especially given the limited thermal and power envelope the Wii U will have to deal with.

 

[Xenus]

The biggest thing I see being reported though I can't really find a source on at the moment is that it only streams within the room. Not to other places in the house which if true makes it kind of awful for a remoteplay like function as well.

 

[patsu]

Yap I read about it. Wondering what wireless tech they use.

 

[Xenus]

If it's same room I have to wonder if it's IR.

 

[Kaotik]

First pre-orders are up it seems
http://www.zavvi.com/games/consoles/wii-u-console/10475210.html

Price £399.85
Claimed availability July 20 2012

 

[glw]

If it's same room I have to wonder if it's IR.

The short range and the bandwidth needed for video make my think it is one of the various UWB video solutions that have cropped up over the last few years.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm beginning to think it's something like a Redwood or Turks GPU, hopefully Turks. You get the benefits of the better Tessellation hardware from Turks...

As I mentioned in another thread, watching the bird demo there is no tessellation in play on the water surface. It remains very flat with simple normal-mapped ripples. That doesn't disprove the presence of tessellation hardware as there may be some other factor, like devs having a deadline or being unfamiliar with techniques (and Nintendo's 1st party devs really have behind the tech curve for quite some time now!), but it is one point against the idea of a more sophisticated GPU.

 

[Mobius1aic]

As I mentioned in another thread, watching the bird demo there is no tessellation in play on the water surface. It remains very flat with simple normal-mapped ripples. That doesn't disprove the presence of tessellation hardware as there may be some other factor, like devs having a deadline or being unfamiliar with techniques (and Nintendo's 1st party devs really have behind the tech curve for quite some time now!), but it is one point against the idea of a more sophisticated GPU.

A very valid argument, but all the streams I've seen so far are pretty weak for seeing the finer qualities. Regardless, I don't think that there is an 80 or 160 SP class GPU in that system. I think Nintendo would want to at least match the 360's Xenos on all fronts. While a Caicos can match the 240 GFLOPS of Xenos with a 750 MHz clock speed, it still only has 8 TMUs. I think bare minimum Nintendo went with RV730, but I think Redwood would've fit there need for multi-display capability better. That doesn't mean they couldn't have had AMD adapt a RV730 for multi-display, but Redwood just seems as plausible as RV730 to me, and RV740 or a low clock Juniper is still a possibility, especially considering how pretty, complicated, yet smooth the Zelda HD demo ran.

 

[hoho]

If it's same room I have to wonder if it's IR.

I haven't done too much research on the subject but from the little I know IR doesn't support much more than a couple of MB/s (far less than USB2) and at very close ranges (<1m).

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The biggest thing I see being reported though I can't really find a source on at the moment is that it only streams within the room. Not to other places in the house which if true makes it kind of awful for a remoteplay like function as well.

That info comes from Reggie's interview from Gametrailers.
He says it's "designed to work in the same room", but then he says something like "but the Wiimote was also designed to use in the same room, yet you saw me using it across a large hall, through a big audience".

The range of a wireless communication depends not only on distance but on either you have walls\doors in between, how thick they are, what materials they're made of, either there are more communications using the same frequencies\channels, etc.
I guess what he means is that you can probably use the controller in another room but it depends so much on other factors that Nintendo simply cannot promise you it'll work in every situation, as they can only make sure it'll work if you're in the same room.

As I mentioned in another thread, watching the bird demo there is no tessellation in play on the water surface. It remains very flat with simple normal-mapped ripples. That doesn't disprove the presence of tessellation hardware as there may be some other factor, like devs having a deadline or being unfamiliar with techniques (and Nintendo's 1st party devs really have behind the tech curve for quite some time now!), but it is one point against the idea of a more sophisticated GPU.

AMD claimed it to be a "Radeon HD" GPU.
Since there have been tesselators ever since the first Radeon HD (HD2900), I think it's a safe bet to assume there's a tesselator unit in the WiiU's GPU, regardless of its performance.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A very valid argument, but all the streams I've seen so far are pretty weak for seeing the finer qualities.

Those fish should be chucking up large wave displacements!

I guess what he means is that you can probably use the controller in another room but it depends so much on other factors that Nintendo simply cannot promise you it'll work in every situation, as they can only make sure it'll work if you're in the same room.

That kinda undermines the idea some had of having their console downstairs and gaming upstairs in their bedrooms though. I know my Blue Tooth headset can't cope being in a different room from my PS3. It's certainly sounding more limited than many of us were first expecting - one controller per console so none of these family-orientated board-game ideas, and no real opportunity for remote play.

AMD claimed it to be a "Radeon HD" GPU.
Since there have been tesselators ever since the first Radeon HD (HD2900), I think it's a safe bet to assume there's a tesselator unit in the WiiU's GPU, regardless of its performance.

It didn't get much use either! I guess by tessellation, I don't just mean tessellation units that subdivide surfaces on the fly, but more complex geometry creation a la DX10. Although in a closed box, any hardware should get utilised.

Perhaps another strange thing about that bird demo was that, even without tessellation, they could have used a finer surface and just displaced vertices. Considering all the other geometry on display, a few less flowers to free up enough for a more complex water mesh would have been a better choice. I'm more inclined to think that demo wasn't a particularly comprehensive demo of the underlying hardware.