Video Game Console Cooling - A Hot Topic (pun kind of intended).

I've always found the cooling aspects of consoles very interesting in terms of how they are engineered. As the specs have gotten more powerful, and the designs of consoles have become more like highly specialized gaming PCs in some sense, it's been a lot of fun seeing how methods of cooling have evolved with the consoles as well. Thanks to YouTube, it's now possible to watch tear-downs of the consoles delve even deeper into how these systems work. Gamer Nexus has some really well done videos on the topic for those also interested.

Historically, the concept of home video game consoles and cooling was never a topic of discussion simply for the fact that while these consoles did generate some heat, they were nowhere near powerful enough to have to come up with ingenious ways to cool them more effectively.

That all changed with the release of the Xbox 360 original model.

While the console itself was an impressive display of technology on the home console market at the time, a higher-than-comfortable number of consoles failed due to overheating. This became known as the Red-Ring Of Death or RROD, as many of you I am sure already know.

With the power of hindsight, we know now that the cause was primarily due to poor engineering - putting too weak of a cooling system into a console that was quite powerful. Microsoft and to some extent the industry, learned an important lesson. The issue was quickly fixed in subsequent models like the Xbox 360 S which had an improved design with better cooling mechanics, thus greatly reducing the failure rate.

This is where things also kind of took a turn in terms of people becoming interested - sometimes morbidly so - in the cooling aspects of consoles. With this new concern seemed to come a wave of muddled misinformation, confusion and myths.

I'd like to state that I am by no means an expert - most people here probably have a more proficient understanding of technology than I, which is why I was interested to open this discussion on a tech forum, so people with perhaps more expertise could weigh in as well. I do have a slightly higher than average understanding of how consoles are built as I have taken many apart and put them back together to do basic repairs, cleaning and replacements of components and thermal paste. I also feel there is just a lot of misinformation flying around out there about console cooling and what people should be doing, and shouldn't be doing and I'd greatly appreciate anyone's input, opinions, findings and thoughts on the topic!

Here are some examples:

Console Cooling Fans

After the RROD era of the Xbox 360, the market seemed to become flooded with 3rd party cooling fans that attach to the console which are supposed to provide aid in keeping the console cool. The funny thing is, a lot of these are highly reviewed on Amazon with people claiming they keep their consoles running cooler and performing better. I have a very hard time believing this. From all my testing, they seem to at the very least do nothing, and at the very worst could interfere with the console's build-in cooling performance, or overall function if they draw power from the console itself to run. I strongly recommend not using these, but have gotten flack from their defenders claiming I am wrong.

Thermal Paste Re-Application

This is a tricky one, and I have had quite a few people attack me online for it - but I don't think this is always all it is cracked up to be. Hear me out!
Yes, thermal paste does have a lifespan, and replacing it can help, but in most cases I don't think it is the cure-all people seem to act like it is. I noticed this the most with the PS4 during the end of its lifespan on the market. As games were getting more graphically intense, later generation games were really pushing the hardware to its fullest. Many PS4s (which essentially had the processing power of a budget gaming laptop by this point in time), had 'developed' very noticeable fan noise, which while I agree was a minor annoyance, was mostly due to the fact of it running games that were now a little more ahead of what the PS4 was designed for and not so much an overheating issue. I had first hand experience with this, when my PS4 really began to chug with newer games coming out. I took it all apart, cleaned it out, applied new thermal paste in the proper fashion, and...well, not much really changed. When I replayed games that came out closer to the PS4's launch however, the fan noise was not as much of an issue. However, much like the reviews online of 3rd party cooling fan, there are thermal paste replacement videos all over YouTube with comments like "I repasted my PS4 and it went from sounding like a jet to being whisper quiet!" and I just seriously have my doubts as to the validity of some those statements.

Time Of Use

This is another curious one. I've read many articles about console cooling across the internet, and one piece of information that I see popping up time and again is that you can prevent cooling issues from cropping up by reducing your play time. I feel this is partly a throwback to the Xbox RROD times, when a buildup of heat in a under ventilated console could be detrimental to the internal components - but nowadays I just don't feel that risk is the same. The number that keeps appearing in these articles is usually something along the lines of 'after five or six hours of gameplay, you should take a break to avoid console heat buildup issues,' but I can't for the life of me understand what that number is based on. Granted, for personal reasons, you absolutely may want to take a break after a six hour gaming session, but in terms of technical reasons...why? Normally, I don't spent six hours in a row on a game, but look - as gamers we all have had those times when you're really enjoying a new title and you're on that new game grind - I put four to six hours of game time on my PS4, PS5, Nintendo and Xbox consoles before to no apparent ill effects. They weren't suddenly running any hotter than during any other point in their use or anything else that would spark concern. Consoles today are designed to be on for a long duration of time with no ill effects, and are stress tested far beyond normal use patterns.

These are just three major points I see come up often when it comes to people concerned about the cooling efficiency of their consoles with lots of arguing as to what's best and I just get the sense that a lot of these things are either myths of just born from misinformation. I've personally never had a console overheat on me, and even during those times pre-PS5 when my PS4 was chugging away at more graphically intense games, yes, the console may have been working harder but there was never the sense it would overheat and fail as a result of it.

So - please feel free to discus! Do you agree? Disagree? What are your experiences? Do you feel like there is a lot of misinformation surrounding this topic? I'd love to hear from those with a larger technological background than my own as well! For the sake of keep the replies on-topic, I won't talk about failure through misuse (example: improper ventilation due to being crammed in an enclosed entertainment unit, clogged air vents etc).


Thanks!
 
With the power of hindsight, we know now that the cause was primarily due to poor engineering - putting too weak of a cooling system into a console that was quite powerful. Microsoft and to some extent the industry, learned an important lesson. The issue was quickly fixed in subsequent models like the Xbox 360 S which had an improved design with better cooling mechanics, thus greatly reducing the failure rate.
Actually, no. ;) The reason was an electronics-industry wide EU enforced removal of lead solder. The new lead free solder was untested and it turned out prone to cracking. Once MS and Sony got to grips with the new material, they could design around it.
Console Cooling Fans

After the RROD era of the Xbox 360, the market seemed to become flooded with 3rd party cooling fans that attach to the console which are supposed to provide aid in keeping the console cool. The funny thing is, a lot of these are highly reviewed on Amazon with people claiming they keep their consoles running cooler and performing better. I have a very hard time believing this. From all my testing, they seem to at the very least do nothing, and at the very worst could interfere with the console's build-in cooling performance, or overall function if they draw power from the console itself to run. I strongly recommend not using these, but have gotten flack from their defenders claiming I am wrong.
We expect the console's cooling to be highly engineered and tested. Perhaps one problem people have with testing after-market solutions (like fan cut-out on PS5 Dbrand Faceplates) is they test the exhaust heat, which may be cooler when less effective as less heat is being extracted. Hotter exhaust can be indicative of either more heat being removed, or less being removed and the chips running hotter.

Without an accurate way of testing chip temps, I don't know that there's any way to grade after-market solutions effectively.

Thermal Paste Re-Application

I had first hand experience with this, when my PS4 really began to chug with newer games coming out. I took it all apart, cleaned it out, applied new thermal paste in the proper fashion, and...well, not much really changed.
Not sure what you mean by 'chugged' and 'changed'. I take 'chugged' to mean ran poorly. If that's what you mean, cooling wouldn't help as consoles don't have thermal throttling. They just run hotter and louder until they turn themselves off at thermal limits to protect the chips.

When I replayed games that came out closer to the PS4's launch however, the fan noise was not as much of an issue. However, much like the reviews online of 3rd party cooling fan, there are thermal paste replacement videos all over YouTube with comments like "I repasted my PS4 and it went from sounding like a jet to being whisper quiet!" and I just seriously have my doubts as to the validity of some those statements.
The paste used is often very cheap, not even paste. There are plenty of users here who have replaced their paste/pads with good results, and it makes sense. The thermal connection between die and heatsink is a huge influence on thermal efficiency. Better paste means better heat transfer to the HS which mean more removed by the fan as the HS is hotter. As such, the fan can run slower.

Time Of Use

The number that keeps appearing in these articles is usually something along the lines of 'after five or six hours of gameplay, you should take a break to avoid console heat buildup issues,' but I can't for the life of me understand what that number is based on.
I agree, I can't see any reason for 'heat build up'. And definitely not some 5-6 hours. If your console is going to overheat, it'll be far quicker than that.

I think broadly speaking, console cooling is always adequate as engineered by the console companies that lose money on replacements, plus Good Will. It's in their best interests to design cooling solutions that work, and they do. The real issues are only really of cost-cutting to provide solutions that are cool enough, but don't care for noise. That thank goodness changed this gen!

When it comes to renovating a noisy console, new high-quality paste definitely helps, but so to does cleaning which comes with the re-pasting.
 
Actually, no. ;) The reason was an electronics-industry wide EU enforced removal of lead solder. The new lead free solder was untested and it turned out prone to cracking. Once MS and Sony got to grips with the new material, they could design around it.

That was the biggest part of it indeed, but supplementary issues included poor placement of hotspot sensors in the GPU / Northbirdge chip leading to under-reporting of danger temps to the system, and a late change to add a HDD which changed airflow coming from the HDD side of the system and further exacerbated GPU temperature issues. Once of the first changes to the cooling system of the 90nm 'sooperhawt' systems was an additional emergency heatpipe from the GPU's tiny heatsink leading to a bonus radiator that got some airflow from the none HDD side.

That boosted GPU heatsink lasted into the Falcon models, which I think might have also had slightly cooler 80nm GPUs (one variant of the 360 did).

Anecdotally: a chum of mine had a launch 360. After a few hours co-op on Rainbow Six Vegas we took the disk out of the drive and it was hot to the touch. Not warm, not very warm, it was hot! My Falcon model only ever had disks come out that were slightly warm.
 
Actually, no. ;) The reason was an electronics-industry wide EU enforced removal of lead solder. The new lead free solder was untested and it turned out prone to cracking. Once MS and Sony got to grips with the new material, they could design around it.

Thank you for this insight, that's interesting and I wasn't fully aware. I appreciate the correction!

We expect the console's cooling to be highly engineered and tested. Perhaps one problem people have with testing after-market solutions (like fan cut-out on PS5 Dbrand Faceplates) is they test the exhaust heat, which may be cooler when less effective as less heat is being extracted. Hotter exhaust can be indicative of either more heat being removed, or less being removed and the chips running hotter.

Without an accurate way of testing chip temps, I don't know that there's any way to grade after-market solutions effectively.

Yes, that is an excellent point and one I've also considered.

Not sure what you mean by 'chugged' and 'changed'. I take 'chugged' to mean ran poorly. If that's what you mean, cooling wouldn't help as consoles don't have thermal throttling. They just run hotter and louder until they turn themselves off at thermal limits to protect the chips.

My apologies here - that was a really poor choice of words. By chugged, I was referring to how hard the fan was working, and I think a better way to word that would have been 'the fan was working audibly louder, spinning much quicker.' The performance of the console itself never changed, it ran well before playing the game that caused the fans to work harder and ran well after that as well. The only difference was the fan was running much, much louder. It never overheated or gave me an overheating warning, despite this so I am have to assume the loud fan was still cooling the console properly despite working harder to do so.

The paste used is often very cheap, not even paste. There are plenty of users here who have replaced their paste/pads with good results, and it makes sense. The thermal connection between die and heatsink is a huge influence on thermal efficiency. Better paste means better heat transfer to the HS which mean more removed by the fan as the HS is hotter. As such, the fan can run slower.

Very true, and I don't mean to belittle anyone who has replaced their thermal paste by claiming it to be useless. For any user here who has found their fans to run less intensely after a repasting: I believe you! Sony did put some notoriously cheap components in their base model PS4. To this day, I still can't believe how weak the Wifi Antenna is sometimes - for example. When I repasted mine, I just didn't notice any change in the loud fan volume, but again, I think that was due more to the age of the console vs the games it was running. Some of those next gen ports were just poorly optimized for last gen as well.

I think broadly speaking, console cooling is always adequate as engineered by the console companies that lose money on replacements, plus Good Will. It's in their best interests to design cooling solutions that work, and they do.

Thank you for that summary. This is my go-to statement when discussing console cooling with people who are concerned about it.

Appreciate your feedback and enjoyed reading your thoughts!
 
That was the biggest part of it indeed, but supplementary issues included poor placement of hotspot sensors in the GPU / Northbirdge chip leading to under-reporting of danger temps to the system, and a late change to add a HDD which changed airflow coming from the HDD side of the system and further exacerbated GPU temperature issues. Once of the first changes to the cooling system of the 90nm 'sooperhawt' systems was an additional emergency heatpipe from the GPU's tiny heatsink leading to a bonus radiator that got some airflow from the none HDD side.

That boosted GPU heatsink lasted into the Falcon models, which I think might have also had slightly cooler 80nm GPUs (one variant of the 360 did).

Anecdotally: a chum of mine had a launch 360. After a few hours co-op on Rainbow Six Vegas we took the disk out of the drive and it was hot to the touch. Not warm, not very warm, it was hot! My Falcon model only ever had disks come out that were slightly warm.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing, appreciate the input at the insight!
 
Interesting! Thanks for sharing, appreciate the input at the insight!

The first sentence is what I read back in the day - the hotspots thing was on some nerdy chip website, and the comment about cooling and airflow and placement of the HDD was from someone high up at Xbox in some retrospective.

The very first step to try and stop RRoD was a type of resin glue holding the chip package to the mobo. This was supposed to try and reduce the mechanical stress on the chip package to mobo solder caused by heating cycles. Did nothing to reduce temps though, and wouldn't have helped if the cracks were between the actual GPU/NB chip and the package (the square thing the chip sits on that itself gets soldered to the mobo).

The improved GPU heatsink - which I *think* first appeared on original 90nm GPUs - brought GPU temps down significantly and you could tell somewhat from the temperature of DVDs that had spent a while in the DVD drive. The GPU was still probably running a little hot though. RRoD reduced in frequency at this time IIRC, but by no means became rare. Things were further improved by the Falcon revision.

IIRC my Falcon 360 had the first GPU shrink from 90nm to 80nm plus the improved heatsink from before. It also had the CPU shrink from 90nm to 65nm along with the simplified CPU heatsink. Temps were well under control by this time - my fans only ever spun up a couple of stages from lowest (in audible increments) and neither the system nor the disks ever got hot. My system still died of RRoD after ~3.5 years, caused by solder bumps cracking on the GPU/NB. It was still a victim of exactly the kind of issue that @Shifty Geezer was describing. Fixed it briefly by applying more pressure to the GPU heatsink and forcing contact, but didn't last long.

My 360 Slim (they were completely re-engineered from the bottom up) is still going strong to this day.
 
As for the solder issue, this is where we ended up with people using ovens and heat-guns to re-flow the solder:


Edit: not watched - just a search result example.
 
How about a more specific Q.
Whats the highest TDP, or wattage a consumer console can use and get rid of as heat?
with the PS5 being @ 180W and the XSX being around 200W, have we reached the limit pop console power consumption?

Or will newer, more complex, more expensive cooling solutions allow for consoles with a higher power output?

I could see going to *maybe* 220W but i doubt much beyond that is going to be practical for a home console.
If next gen uses multiple chips, instead of a single APU, that does in theory make cooling a bit easier.
But if the chips are all right next to each other, then it doesn't help much.

and having some complex 2.5 or 3d packaging like an APU on Vchache isn't going to help things either :(
 
with the PS5 being @ 180W and the XSX being around 200W, have we reached the limit pop console power consumption?
The number's I've seen place PS5 hotter, which makes sense as it's faster clocks versus wider chip and power draw is exponential with clockspeed.
Or will newer, more complex, more expensive cooling solutions allow for consoles with a higher power output?
Technically there's no power limit. You can go larger and more expensive. The issue is what heat dissipation can be achieved at a certain size/cost/noise level.
 
The number's I've seen place PS5 hotter, which makes sense as it's faster clocks versus wider chip and power draw is exponential with clockspeed.

Technically there's no power limit. You can go larger and more expensive. The issue is what heat dissipation can be achieved at a certain size/cost/noise level.
Well I stand corrected!
Always happen to learn.

yeah i guess my question was a bit too open ended..
We could just get receiver size boxes with similar noise levels to current systems, that are pushing 250-300W?
 
Well I stand corrected!
Always happen to learn.

yeah i guess my question was a bit too open ended..
We could just get receiver size boxes with similar noise levels to current systems, that are pushing 250-300W?
Remember the reaction to the xbox one ?

It was a large box about the size of the ps5 but people hated it compared to the ps4. The ps4 itself had a ton of noise issues as it aged but the xbox one did not


1689533961205.png

Just a really nice simple set up.

In comparison https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+4+Teardown/19493

I had to clean out so many of those fans for friends
 
Well I stand corrected!
Always happen to learn.

yeah i guess my question was a bit too open ended..
We could just get receiver size boxes with similar noise levels to current systems, that are pushing 250-300W?

There's of course other implications for this but just using the XSX if you hypothetically eliminated the disc drive in the current form factor that would leave a lot more room for cooling expansion. The existing design itself still has a some free space that could add some cooling potentially likely if you didn't care about costs with more elaborate heatpipe designs.

Also as a theoretical comparison in terms of just the heatsink size well a RTX 4090 FE is handling 450w with room to spare.

The number's I've seen place PS5 hotter, which makes sense as it's faster clocks versus wider chip and power draw is exponential with clockspeed.

The PS5 seems like there was a stronger focus on form over just function (from what I remember the designer when interviewed did say form was a high priority). The thinner and more "artistic" profile of the box in theory would make it harder to cool all else being equal compared to the XSX simpler (and wider essentially) rectangular tower, and the heatsink is more complex than the XSX's.
 
If you look at how many AAA first party games have been released for Series consoles, it is not surprising that there has not yet been a game that takes advantage of the capabilities of these consoles. Hellblade 2 could be the first, followed by Avowed, Idiana Jones, Fable, Gears, etc. This generation is so behind in terms of games...
 
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