E3: Nintendo Conference

[Guden Oden]

Why do people keep hoping/wishing for GBA2 (or whatever) to be GC-compatible? That's a totally unrealistic expectation for many reasons, not least because GC runs at both PAL and NTSC line resolutions; most GC PAL titles can even switch between standard PAL and PAL60 (which is NTSC line res). How would you do that on an LCD, which has a fixed horizontal as well as vertical resolution?

It'd be completely nutty, and how do you fit all the buttons and sticks realistically on a portable? Even PSP does not have even ONE analog stick, much less TWO plus D-pad!

Jesus people, lay down the crack pipe before it is too late!

 

[Tagrineth]

I never said Mario 64 ran @640x480. Infact, I wasn't talking about Mario 64 period. And I'm sure there were some games running @640x480 on N64. *runs away*

Not many, and the only full frame 640x480 game that had a good frame rate was Star Wars: Rogue Squadron - not exactly a geometry monster there.

Yeah, but it's not like NDS's screen is 320x480, which would make it 1/2 of N64's output. It's actually closer 1/8th of N64 of 320x160. I know it's slightly higher res than that, but you get my point. And wasn't the N64 fillrate limited rather than geometry as someone has pointed out earlier here at B3D forums?

And by the way, forgot to mention this earlier:

N64 is memory latency limited more than anything else. RAM speed accounts for just about any slowdown you ever saw on N64.

The biggest geometry pushers were fill rate limited (perfect dark), while the biggest pixel pushers were probably more geometry limited (Rogue Squadron, Majora's Mask).

 

[Shogmaster]

Thanks for schooling me on N64. I still try to forget the blurry mess of that machine.

I do still think you're off on DS being a better 3D hardware than N64 though. The texture warping seems pretty rampant on DS without much done to correct it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Tagrinet: I disagrew with your statement.

Likely what we are seeing on the DS is the ARM9 CPU, with or without the VFPU designed by ARM for the ARM9 core, seems to be a software renderer mostly.

I agree that going for higher fps brings some sacrifices and that to reduce texture warping you have to tessellate more: I am seeing that happening.

Look at those Mario 64x4 shots: the background ( polygonal in the N64 version: I am talking about the mountains on the sides, near the sea, etc... ) are now flat 2D pictures and while I do see nice detail on the Chained Monster I do see a nice close-up that blocks the engine from drawing very far.

The N64 was not that slow at pushing polygons according to waht ERP tells me ( custom micro-code can push the RSP well above 500K polygons/s according to him while the NDS was rated by Nintendo at 120K Polygons/s ), it is just that it had a low fill-rate.

We are seeing a much lower resolution compared to even the N64's 320x240, no AA, no bi-linear filtering, lack of fancy alpha-blending effects, etc...

I still want the DS, but I will not buy this thing that the DS is much faster than the N64.

Tag, the 2D map is handled by the GBA SoC ( the 2D Hardware is included ) which is running at 2x the frequency it did on GBA ( 33.4 MHz, likely clocked down to 16.7 MHz in the GBA backward-compatibility mode the machine has ).

 

[PC-Engine]

I think Nintendo made a really smart move here.

1. They're giving the DS limited 3D capabilites to keep price and power consumption down.

2. This along with backwards compatibility with GBA mean both developers and consumers will be very happy and will ensure very good sales.

3. Waiting until full blown 3D is cheap enough power-wise along with a bigger LCD means GBA 2 will be able to run for a long time on a rechargeable battery. It will be cheaper to product too which means lower prices to the consumer.

 

[Lazy8s]

Yeah. Nintendo understands the dynamics of the market very well and understands what's acceptable regarding critical factors like price and battery life.

Like PSX, I expect PSP to start out strong but taper off as it struggles to find a substantial market beyond the early adopters. I doubt Sony will ever let it fade out completely, though, until they're ready to get it right with a properly positioned second attempt.

 

[PC-Engine]

BTW anyone here actually get a hands on test of the DS to see how the graphics actually look instead of these photo shopped images?

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Why do people keep hoping/wishing for GBA2 (or whatever) to be GC-compatible? That's a totally unrealistic expectation for many reasons, not least because GC runs at both PAL and NTSC line resolutions; most GC PAL titles can even switch between standard PAL and PAL60 (which is NTSC line res). How would you do that on an LCD, which has a fixed horizontal as well as vertical resolution?

It'd be completely nutty, and how do you fit all the buttons and sticks realistically on a portable? Even PSP does not have even ONE analog stick, much less TWO plus D-pad!

Jesus people, lay down the crack pipe before it is too late!

PSP has one little stick.

 

[Bohdy]

Does anyone have a link to the full conference for d/l?

Because I am at Uni right now....

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Does anyone have a link to the full conference for d/l?

Because I am at Uni right now....

I do!

Especially for YOOUUU!! (I am sorry, it's 6.45 AM here, I am up for 3 three hours already )

Here it is:

http://videogamerx.apmsetup.net/public/e3/gc/conference-nintendo-e32004.exe

 

[Bohdy]

Cheers man!

29 meg is a bit small though, isn't it? I guess the quality is less than favourable...

Edit: Nm, thanks again!

 

[Megadrive1988]

I still want the DS, but I will not buy this thing that the DS is much faster than the N64.

agreed Pana.

DS is below N64 quality and performance. maybe like PS1, maybe not.

certainly DS' 3D is a step above SNES SuperFX and GBA though.

DS is all about infinite possibilities with gameplay and communications. not graphics processing muscle. I can still have fun with MD/Genesis games. DS could be incredibly fun. especially with the wireless internet capability. I'd buy DS just as a communications device. combined with the touch screen and microphone, anything is possible.

that said, i'll be looking forward to the nextgen GAMEBOY in 2006 or 2007, with PSP or better quality 3D. I don't really expect the next Gameboy to be Gamecube compatible any more than PSP is compatable with PS2. or any more than GBA is compatible with SNES. The next Gameboy will be yet another format. hopefully leveraging ATI's advantage (over just about everyone 'cept PowerVR) in mobile 3D graphics.

 

[Almasy]

Yeah. Nintendo understands the dynamics of the market very well and understands what's acceptable regarding critical factors like price and battery life.

Like PSX, I expect PSP to start out strong but taper off as it struggles to find a substantial market beyond the early adopters. I doubt Sony will ever let it fade out completely, though, until they're ready to get it right with a properly positioned second attempt.

On what are you basing your prediction lazy8s?

 

[PC-Engine]

DS is gonna be real popular with school kids from JH to HS just for the communication ability alone.

 

[StefanS]

Some DS screens:

Metroid
Mario
Animal Crossing
Wario Ware

Btw, as I said before Animal Crossing features a chat! Online?

Movie Madness:

Lots of Movies! Yay!

 

[Bad_Boy]

looks a bit ugly if you ask me. compared to the psp video, the ds aint got nuttin special.

youd think they would go for a new design...

^nintendo game&watch

kinda makes you think if their next console may come out looking like this..

 

[StefanS]

kinda makes you think if their next console may come out looking like this..

kinda makes me think you're trolling

 

[Lazy8s]

Almasy:

On what are you basing your prediction

Over one hundred-million unit sales of the Game Boy line shows where the mass market is for the portable gaming sector, and the PSP will price itself right out of that.

I think movies and media could potentially be killer applications for a mobile device of a pre-existing demographic, like on a mobile phone; PSP doesn't leverage any trojan-horse functionality or sales plans to ride that.

Going with a proprietary format like UMD also wastes the chance of riding the popularity of some standardized medium, and it just doubles the odds against itself in trying to open a new market of handheld movie watching in the first place.

 

[GHost]

If it's < $250 I'm getting it. BTW the hands-on reports bring the news that the design is just a prototype and the DS is subject to cosmetic changes before release. It's the features, not the looks, that are being presented.

 

[Guden Oden]

PSP has one little stick.

Where? All I see is a D-pad on the left side.

Does PSP even have shoulder buttons btw? I haven't noticed any in the pics but maybe I forgot to look for them or nobody's shown a pic of the top side of the unit... If there are no shoulder buttons, then Nintendo will likely out-button the PSP. Only case where it wins over Sony.

(Ok, it'll likely be lighter too, not that it really matters, as PSP won't exactly be a chunk of lead either.)