E3: Nintendo Conference

[casper]

Also, and Nin fans will kill me for saying this, but these high res closeup photos make DS looks really, really cheap (build, and plastics quality).

No hate here, I thought the GBA SP quality looked a bit cheap in pictures as well but quickly changed my mind after purchasing it. If anything, the DS looks just as durable as the GBA and GBA SP.

The image it produces however...

WiFi battles will be fun.

 

[hey69]

3D performance is not the purpose of the DS.

it's about the second screen isn't it

 

[marconelly!]

No hate here, I thought the GBA SP quality looked a bit cheap in pictures as well but quickly changed my mind after purchasing it.

Really? I actually strongly feel the exact opposite. I thought promo SP pictures represented it better light than it is in person. It's quite possible that we saw different PR pictures of SP, though.

 

[Farid]

3D performance is not the purpose of the DS.

On 6 games presented (Pictochat is not a game) 5 use 3D rendering... So it may not be its purpose but that's what it's actually doing.

 

[casper]

No hate here, I thought the GBA SP quality looked a bit cheap in pictures as well but quickly changed my mind after purchasing it.

Really? I actually strongly feel the exact opposite. I thought promo SP pictures represented it better light than it is in person. It's quite possible that we saw different PR pictures of SP, though.

Indeed mate. I'm digging about the PSP as well, that thing looks damn cool.

 

[Tagrineth]

Agreed, the DS 3D quality is pretty horrific. Not too many games seem to really use the 2nd screen all that well either (map?).

No, it isn't horrific.

It's hands down better than what N64 can put out.

The only problem with those shots is pixillation, which is almost unavoidable on a screen that small - PSP will have similar issues, once we see true-res pictures rather than emulated mock-ups.

If you don't believe me, consider this: N64 ran Mario64 at about 30fps, unstable. PSP is running it at 60fps, with four main characters, a map at all times, and... well, look at the Chain Chomp's teeth. The CC was just a textured ball on the N64.

And at least in Mario64x4, Nintendo revealed that pressing the second screen (map) with the stylus would move the camera to that location so you could see your allies.

New Zelda looks neat - hopefully it'll have a tighter, more mature narrative to go with the visuals too.

 

[ShinHoshi]

I agree with you Marco...
From Nintendo's website:

3-D: With the newly developed graphics engine, DS can reproduce impressive 3-D renderings that can surpass images displayed on the Nintendo® 64. Games will run at 60 frames per second, and allow details like fog effects and cel shading.

I think this is a bit optimistic...

 

[wazoo]

3D performance is not the purpose of the DS.

On 6 games presented (Pictochat is not a game) 5 use 3D rendering... So it may not be its purpose but that's what it's actually doing.

I did not say that the DS would not have 3d games. DS presentation was about having a different gameplay perspective.

PSP - which I will own too - is just a PS2 Portable, most likely with same games from a gameplay perspective.

I still wait to be impressed by the DS gameplay at the current time. I did not expect to be impressed by the 3D specs.

 

[Clashman]

Granted, the lack of bilinear filtering is a significant minus on the DS. Still, what was shown wasn't that far off from what N64 could do.

For instance:
N64

DS

N64

DS

Minus bilinear they do look like they could be rendered on the same hw.

 

[marconelly!]

It's hands down better than what N64 can put out.

I really must disagree. No bilinear filtering, no perspective correction - two basic things a renderer needs to look the same or better than N64. I'm thinking, maybe the polygon transformation is better on DS than it was on N64, but rasterizer sure as hell isn't. It would be really difficult to imagine that software renderer on ARM9 could do such blending effects as N64 could do.

 

[Shogmaster]

It's hands down better than what N64 can put out.

What the hell are you smoking? As blurred mess as N64 games were, they had bi-linear filtering, perspective correct textures, and alpha blending. I don't see any of that on the DS shots so far.

 

[zurich]

The DS is missing bilinear, perspective correction, and a good half of the resolution of N64 :|

 

[Clashman]

What the hell are you smoking? As blurred mess as N64 games were, they had bi-linear filtering, perspective correct textures, and alpha blending. I don't see any of that on the DS shots so far.

One thing the DS should be able to benefit from is larger cartridge sizes, which could mean video or additional texturing capabilities.

 

[Farid]

http://www.nintendo.com/media/e32k4/games/ds_smb.html

:?

I Sincerely hope that the second screen is kept for a "surprise announcement"... or else...

It didn't even have the revolutionary* map on screen two. :?



* Yes i'm sarcastic, i plead guilty.

 

[Tagrineth]

It's hands down better than what N64 can put out.

What the hell are you smoking? As blurred mess as N64 games were, they had bi-linear filtering, perspective correct textures, and alpha blending. I don't see any of that on the DS shots so far.

N64 games also use a much larger screen... DS games will always be on their small screen, and will get a sort of automatic, limited AA effect by that alone.

Granted the texturing is a big weakness... but are we sure perspective correction isn't in there? Remember, Mario64 was one game that took advantage of huge triangles - so does Mario64x4 still have the same terrain geometry that N64 did?

Anyway, I was mainly referring to the geometry performance, which is definitely a huge step above N64's.

 

[Teasy]

I don't think DS's graphics are anywhere near as bad as some people here are saying, despite the poor filtering it does seem to have more polygon power then N64. Metroid looks good to me:

 

[Shogmaster]

N64 games also use a much larger screen... DS games will always be on their small screen, and will get a sort of automatic, limited AA effect by that alone.

If anything, you get better "automatic AA" from blurry res CRT tubes of regular TV sets than small res LCD screens.

Granted the texturing is a big weakness... but are we sure perspective correction isn't in there? Remember, Mario64 was one game that took advantage of huge triangles - so does Mario64x4 still have the same terrain geometry that N64 did?

Don't over-think this and just look at the shots. Especially the Metroid DS shots. You can see evidence of wiggly textures all over the place.

Anyway, I was mainly referring to the geometry performance, which is definitely a huge step above N64's.

I don't see much evidence of that either. The geometry for DS games look pretty basic so far.

 

[marconelly!]

Granted, geometry in 99% of N64 games was pretty basic too, so it's hard for me to compare. Mario 64 NDS looks like it has same or close to same geometry to me as M64 on N64. I guess Tagrineth has the point of 2x the framerate (we have really to confirm it first, though), but it's running in 2x lower res, as well

As sad as it sounds, I think it's pretty safe to say NDS will have graphics comparable to nGage...

Now game quality will be whole other matter

 

[casper]

More Zelda

 

[marconelly!]

Maaaan, new zelda looks nice. Such a stark contrast to Celda, and both are soooo pretty!