E3: Nintendo Conference

[Tagrineth]

I don't see much evidence of that either. The geometry for DS games look pretty basic so far.

Granted, geometry in 99% of N64 games was pretty basic too, so it's hard for me to compare. Mario 64 NDS looks like it has same or close to same geometry to me as M64 on N64. I guess Tagrineth has the point of 2x the framerate (we have really to confirm it first, though), but it's running in 2x lower res, as well

OK... two cases.

Case 1: Perspective correction exists.

Assuming this is the case, you assume the world geometry is pretty much the same.

As per my original post on this topic, LOOK AT THE CHAIN CHOMP.

Case 2: Perspective correction does not exist.

Mario 64, like Zelda OoT and MM, relies on taking advantage of N64's perspective correct texturing and has HUGE triangles. Without PC, DS would need to subdivide those triangles a lot to prevent mass warping.

Then, on top of that, look at the chain chomp.


Looking at the Metroid pics, I think I do see the 'wiggly' look in a few shots, but it isn't as pronounced as on PS1, in my opinion. We'll have to wait and see, really.

We thus look at case 2... damn, there must be a lot of subdivision going on.

 

[Farid]

I don't think DS's graphics are anywhere near as bad as some people here are saying, despite the poor filtering it does seem to have more polygon power then N64. Metroid looks good to me:

It's not THAT bad, but it's not "good" either IMHO.
Textures aliasing/shimmering might be a problem on the machine.

user golin
pass harris

http://www.nintendo.com/media/e32k4/games/ds_metroid-prime/051104_metroid-prime-ds-hw_ss-02.jpg

http://www.nintendo.com/media/e32k4/games/ds_metroid-prime/051104_metroid-prime-ds_ss-01.jpg

http://www.nintendo.com/media/e32k4/games/ds_metroid-prime/051104_metroid-prime-ds_ss-07.jpg

http://www.nintendo.com/media/e32k4/games/ds_metroid-prime/051104_metroid-prime-ds_ss-06.jpg

 

[Teasy]

Granted, geometry in 99% of N64 games was pretty basic too, so it's hard for me to compare. Mario 64 NDS looks like it has same or close to same geometry to me as M64 on N64.

But clearly with Mario 64 they are just making exactly that, Mario 64 with some new characters (hence same geometry level) on DS. That doesn't mean DS can't do many more polys then N64.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

wow! A radar! :/

Hope there will be games that actually use the both screens in a better manner.

 

[Tagrineth]

But clearly with Mario 64 they are just making exactly that, Mario 64 with some new characters (hence same geometry level) on DS. That doesn't mean DS can't do many more polys then N64 (look at Metroid: Hunter).

No, not same geometry level. Read my last post here.

If there's no perspective correction, the geometry level isn't even a comparison - DS would have to crunch at least 2-3 times more polys per second to reduce warping.

 

[Xigen]

3D performance is not the purpose of the DS.

it's about the second screen isn't it

doesn't this kind of remind you of Matrox

 

[Megadrive1988]

the new Zelda looks absolutely gobsmackingly good.

seems like 30fps which is understandable if they are using the Spaceworld 2000 Zelda demo engine (which ran at 60fps) or derivative of it, in a large game with an overworld + several enemy models on screen at once, as you play.


now THIS is pretty much exactly what I had wanted all along, and all I could hope for, in a Zelda Gamecube game.

the disappointment of Celda is now gone. all gone

now just think, if GCN2 / N5 / GCNext / Revolution (so many names, eh) is as much of a leap beyond Gamecube, as Gamecube was beyond Nintendo 64, the possibility for a near-CGI quality Zelda game, is there.

Like for instance, the CGI commercial for GBC Oracal of Ages/Seasons. that graphics quality (nevermind the art) should be possible on Nintendo's next home systme 8)

 

[Teasy]

wow! A radar! :/

Heh I just know this is going to look like I'm defending DS again But in the case of Metroid: Hunter I'm pleased with the radar on the second screen. Throughout Metroid Prime it was a little bit of an annoyance to me to have to change to the map screen (more so then in other games with a map for some reason...). I just hope the map on the second screen can be controlled by touching the screen..

Hmm I wonder if gun and visor selection will be controlled with voice commands?.. interesting

 

[hey69]

mmmmh, 3ddddd.. sorry for trolling but that looks like ...

 

[Megadrive1988]

btw, the Mario 64 game demo on DS looks conciderably worse than the 1996 Nintendo 64 game. geometry and framerate-wise, among other things. the 3D quality and performance does look sub-N64 standard.

that said, I'm extremely excited about DS' possibilities with wireless and touch screen. the potential is there for incredible GAMEPLAY and new ways of interacting with games and other people. DS is not about graphics.

Nintendo still has their next-generation Gameboy coming, which should offer 3D performance comparable to, or better than, Sony PSP.

 

[wazoo]

Hmm I wonder if gun and visor selection will be controlled with voice commands?.. interesting

Shooting can be done with the stylet on the second screen, I think (not sure about the details)

 

[Shogmaster]

Granted, geometry in 99% of N64 games was pretty basic too, so it's hard for me to compare. Mario 64 NDS looks like it has same or close to same geometry to me as M64 on N64. I guess Tagrineth has the point of 2x the framerate (we have really to confirm it first, though), but it's running in 2x lower res, as well

Yeah, but it's not like NDS's screen is 320x480, which would make it 1/2 of N64's output. It's actually closer 1/8th of N64 of 320x160. I know it's slightly higher res than that, but you get my point. And wasn't the N64 fillrate limited rather than geometry as someone has pointed out earlier here at B3D forums?

 

[Teasy]

To be fair hey69 those images are blown up to at least twice the size of the actualy DS screen(s)

This looks closer to actual size I think:

What's the resolution of DS's screens again?

 

[Tagrineth]

Granted, geometry in 99% of N64 games was pretty basic too, so it's hard for me to compare. Mario 64 NDS looks like it has same or close to same geometry to me as M64 on N64. I guess Tagrineth has the point of 2x the framerate (we have really to confirm it first, though), but it's running in 2x lower res, as well

Yeah, but it's not like NDS's screen is 320x480, which would make it 1/2 of N64's output. It's actually closer 1/8th of N64 of 320x160. I know it's slightly higher res than that, but you get my point. And wasn't the N64 fillrate limited rather than geometry as someone has pointed out earlier here at B3D forums?

Mario 64 was not running at 640x480.

Most N64 games that ran at that resolution... required an Expansion pak for it. XD

Mario 64 runs at 320x240 natively. It has AA, though...

 

[LogisticX]

Wow, those Zelda screens are fantastic.... the gamecube is a steal for its price!

 

[casper]

Zelda. No other Nintendo franchise brings out my sweet childhood memories of battling for the master sword and getting that final red ring so that I'm strong enough to battle Ganon. I also had my first gambling experience with Zelda, inside a tree...

It's going to be a long winter.

 

[Shogmaster]

Granted, geometry in 99% of N64 games was pretty basic too, so it's hard for me to compare. Mario 64 NDS looks like it has same or close to same geometry to me as M64 on N64. I guess Tagrineth has the point of 2x the framerate (we have really to confirm it first, though), but it's running in 2x lower res, as well

Yeah, but it's not like NDS's screen is 320x480, which would make it 1/2 of N64's output. It's actually closer 1/8th of N64 of 320x160. I know it's slightly higher res than that, but you get my point. And wasn't the N64 fillrate limited rather than geometry as someone has pointed out earlier here at B3D forums?

Mario 64 was not running at 640x480.

Most N64 games that ran at that resolution... required an Expansion pak for it. XD

Mario 64 runs at 320x240 natively. It has AA, though...

I never said Mario 64 ran @640x480. Infact, I wasn't talking about Mario 64 period. And I'm sure there were some games running @640x480 on N64. *runs away*

 

[Jaybird376]

Interesting, according to IGN, this may not be the final version of the DS, presentationwise.....

"The Nintendo DS was bolted down at each of the kiosks, making it impossible to tell how comfortable the device is, and Nintendo demonstrators were keen to point out that the system shown was actually a non-final prototype that will more than likely go through a few more revisions before its debut at the end of the year"

http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/513/513150p1.html

Also, the DS may end up being a third pillar once the GBA successor is announced, which I guess may not have backwards compatability with GBA games. Hopefully they find a way to make it backwards compatible with Gamecube games

 

[nazlec]

I got this from the Software fact sheet for NDS:

(Square Enix Co., Ltd.): a new FINAL FANTASY: CRYSTAL CHRONICLEâ„¢ series and a new DRAGON QUEST MONSTERSâ„¢ series

 

[Teasy]

Here's a list of some of the DS games:

Activision: Spiderman 2

Atari: Project TBA

Bandai: One Piece, other games TBA

Banpresto: Dragon Ball Z

Capcom: Megaman Battle Network, Viewtiful Joe DS, Gyakuten Saiban

Electronic Arts: Need for Speed

From Software Project TBA

Hudson: Bomberman, other projects TBA

Koei: Dynasty Warriors

Konami: Frogger 2005, Yu-Gi-Oh: Nightmare Troubadour

Majesco: Project TBA

Namco: Mr. Driller, TBA RPG

Sega: Project Rub

Square Enix: Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Egg Monster Hero, Dragon Quest Monsters

Tecmo: Monster Rancher

THQ: Spongebob Squarepants

Ubisoft: Rayman

Vivendi: Project TBA

Oooh Viewtiful Joe!