Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

[davis.anthony]

What data are you drawing from where it 'handily' beats the 3080? At 1080p in a few games perhaps. At 1440p, it's 'competitive' with a 3080 at best, and at 4k it far more commonly loses. Raw bus bandwidth clearly has an impact.

From DF's review, RT results (which generally favour Ada):

If you read what he said again he was talking about the 4070ti and not the 4070.

The 4070Ti obliterates many 256bit GPU's , handily beats the 320bit 3080 and even edges out the 384bit 3090.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

As a 4070ti owner I don't think it's poor value at all.

It cost less than double than the 3060ti it replaced and in RT games offers 2x the performance.

Not sure "double the performance at double the price" is necessarily something to boast about for a new generation of cards. If the 5090 doubles the 4090 performance but costs $3000, will that mean it's a 'good value'?

 

[davis.anthony]

Not sure "double the performance at double the price" is necessarily something to boast about for a new generation of cards.

The 4070ti offers ~3090ti RT performance for half the cost, that's good for a next generation card.

If the 5090 doubles the 4090 performance but costs $3000, will that mean it's a 'good value'?

That's not for you to decide for everyone is it?

Price to performance ratio with RT enabled is higher on the 4070ti than the 3060ti and I saw value in that so I made the purchase.

The same logic would also apply for your magical $3000 RTX5090.

 

[trinibwoy]

There are $599 4070's from all the usual suspects still in stock at Newegg which is a good sign for pricing and availability. At my local Microcenter though some of the same $599 cards are shown as discounted from a higher price. That looks suspiciously like a bait and switch where prices will go up soon after launch. Founders Editions are sold out at Best Buy in the US.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

The 4070ti offers ~3090ti RT performance for half the cost, that's good for a next generation card.

Oh please. The 3090ti was regarded as a ridiculous product and only existed due to the insane prices of the crypto boom. Nobody seriously comparing generational uplift uses it as a point of comparison without noting that fact. Even the 3090 was regarded as a boutique product that made little sense at the time.

If Nvidia wants to go back to that era, where cards 1/2 to a third of the price have 85-90% of the performance as it was with the 3090/ti vs 3080, I'm all for it.

That's not for you to decide for everyone is it?

I asked a question, not uttered a decree.

 

[davis.anthony]

The 3090ti was regarded as a ridiculous product and only existed due to the insane prices of the crypto boom.

You need to change your language.

Nobody seriously comparing generational uplift uses it as a point of comparison without noting that fact.

Fact?

Why are you trying to pass off your opinion as a fact?

Even the 3090 was regarded as a boutique product that made little sense at the time.

Again, you need to change your language.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

You need to change your language.

Lol, no. The 3090ti was a ridiculous product.

 

[davis.anthony]

Lol, no. I think the 3090ti was a ridiculous product.

Fixed it for you as you're clearing struggling to separate your feelings about a particular product and the feelings of the wider consumer base.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Fixed it for you as you're clearing struggling to separate your feelings about a particular product and the feelings of the wider consumer base.

The wider consumer base's feelings on it were quite evident, judging by the reviews. It's a ridiculous product. You need to be less attached to the products of your favourite corporation.

 

[davis.anthony]

I think it's a ridiculous product.

Fixed it for you again.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

 

[davis.anthony]

View attachment 8746

What a strange way to say you need to go and re-read the DF 3090ti review to remind yourself of what it actually said.

And just to clarify, it's the 3090ti and not the 3090, I don't want you confusing the two like you did with the 4070 with the 4070ti at the top of this page.

 

[function]

Lets take a little step back folks and lets have a more chilled and friendly conversation.

The 3090Ti is clearly a very capable card and the outright best of its generation, but I'm not sure that gaming, particularly below 4K, is where it was most able to stretch its legs. Compared to the 3070Ti, at least where 8GB wasn't holding it back, the 3090Ti had an area, transistor, BW, and power draw advantage that didn't always translate into a remotely relatable performance advantage.

The 3090Ti (GA102) had a roughly 60% increase in area, transistor count, power consumption and >50% increase in bandwidth over the 3070Ti. But until the limited 8GB vram limit came into effect for the 3070Ti, and until the width of the 3090Ti was possibly able to show it's girth at higher resolutions, the 3090Ti was kind of ... bad value in terms of perf/$$.

A 3090 (none Ti) is currently one of the cards I'm looking at second hand to get me into the RT game. GA102 is certainly not bad, but it's perf/$$ was an outlier IMO justified by crypto returns and its sheer might that meant that if you could afford it, it was the best.

 

[davis.anthony]

A 3090 (none Ti) is currently one of the cards I'm looking at second hand to get me into the RT game.

You UK based?

 

[function]

You UK based?

Yup! The resale market for 3090's here has been limited by the crash in crypto. I might need a new PSU, but DLSS 3 aside it's a potentially cost effective card.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

What a strange way to say you need to go and re-read the DF 3090ti review to remind yourself of what it actually said.

So with all things said and done, the RTX 3090 Ti is indeed the fastest graphics card we've ever tested, but it comes at a steep price - power draw, space and your human currency units. As a value proposition, it barely registers, but the 3090 Ti does at least offer a frightening portend of the future: graphics cards that consume more power than entire mid-range systems and have a greater area than some motherboards - although they do run video games pretty well.

Glowing!

So for us, a hard pass on this. 8-12% for $2200 is insane.

Look I get that there are some Nvidia diehards on this site that can make r/Nvidia blush at times, I've basically accepted it at this point. There are lots of legitimate reasons to champion Nvidia as your preferred vendor, they are indeed the company that have been the main driver for new technologies in the PC gaming space, and while a viable option at certain price points, it's clear that AMD has been in reactive mode for several generations. And yes, there are even reasons to justify the original 3090, such as content creation, or maybe you had the ultimate Skyrim mod load order. As a gaming value it was highly questionable for even enthusiast gamers at the time, but that 24GB allowed it to do certain things the 3080 couldn't.

But man, I would never expect someone to take umbrage at 3090ti desecration. The 500-watt, 10% faster, $2000+ 3090ti? An overlocked 3090, creaking and bursting at the seams to give you that nearly imperceptible boost? My God man, you can blindfold yourself and throw a dart at Nvidia's product stack for the past 10 years and hit a product more worthy of taking up your sword for.

 

[trinibwoy]

I could have put in a Plague Tale - I even downloaded it to perhaps make that comparison. But in the heat of the moment of the recording, I kept thinking how Nixxes did a lot better so I said that. But yeah, A Plague Tale is a great comparison point for texture quality and VRAM usage while being visually and design-wise extremely similar to TLOU Pt 1

The Nixxes GDC talk is like PC gaming nirvana.

• Avoiding PSO compilation stutter
• VRAM management to gracefully handle lower VRAM GPUs
• Improving Raytracing quality on PC, DXR 1.1 vs 1.0
• Scaling quality settings to cover the wide range of PC hardware performance, including CPUs
• DirectX 12 pros & cons.

If they had also worked on TLOU we would be having a very different conversation right now. I hope they continue to do very well as they're clearly passionate about PC as a gaming platform and actually know what they're doing.

Advanced Graphics Summit: 'Marvel's Spider-Man' Remastered: A PC Postmortem

Marvels Spider-Man was originally developed by Insomniac Games in partnership with Sony Interactive Entertainment and Marvel for PlayStation 4 in 2018, followed by the PlayStation 5 version Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered in 2020. Marvel's...

gdcvault.com

 

[Flappy Pannus]

The Nixxes GDC talk is like PC gaming nirvana.

• Avoiding PSO compilation stutter
• VRAM management to gracefully handle lower VRAM GPUs
• Improving Raytracing quality on PC, DXR 1.1 vs 1.0
• Scaling quality settings to cover the wide range of PC hardware performance, including CPUs
• DirectX 12 pros & cons.

If they had also worked on TLOU we would be having a very different conversation right now. I hope they continue to do very well as they're clearly passionate about PC as a gaming platform and actually know what they're doing.

Advanced Graphics Summit: 'Marvel's Spider-Man' Remastered: A PC Postmortem

Marvels Spider-Man was originally developed by Insomniac Games in partnership with Sony Interactive Entertainment and Marvel for PlayStation 4 in 2018, followed by the PlayStation 5 version Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered in 2020. Marvel's...

gdcvault.com

lol

 

[davis.anthony]

Yup! The resale market for 3090's here has been limited by the crash in crypto. I might need a new PSU, but DLSS 3 aside it's a potentially cost effective card.

CEX are a good place to look at used GPU's as they're priced competitively and come with a 2 year warranty.

 

[davis.anthony]

Glowing!

What they said makes your meme look silly

Look I get that there are some Nvidia diehards on this site that can make r/Nvidia blush at times, I've basically accepted it at this point.

I'm not one of them.

I go with whoever gives me what I'm looking for in a GPU at my budget level.

There are lots of legitimate reasons to champion Nvidia as your preferred vendor, they are indeed the company that have been the main driver for new technologies in the PC gaming space, and while a viable option at certain price points, it's clear that AMD has been in reactive mode for several generations.

No relevance in this.

And yes, there are even reasons to justify the original 3090, such as content creation, or maybe you had the ultimate Skyrim mod load order.

Sigh, you're still not getting it.

As a gaming value it was highly questionable for even enthusiast gamers at the time, but that 24GB allowed it to do certain things the 3080 couldn't.

You still not getting it at all.

But man, I would never expect someone to take umbrage at 3090ti desecration.

No, I have issues with people who think their opinion is gospel like you have been.

The 500-watt, 10% faster, $2000+ 3090ti? An overlocked 3090, creaking and bursting at the seams to give you that nearly imperceptible boost?

So like loads of other, lower priced GPU's them.

6800 Vs 6800XT.

Etc .etc..

My God man, you can blindfold yourself and throw a dart at Nvidia's product stack for the past 10 years and hit a product more worthy of taking up your sword for.

You seem to have a massive problem with Nvidia.

I'll say it again, change your language.

If you don't like something or feel something has no value that's cool, but stop talking like your feelings apply to everyone.