Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

[BRiT]

New Year, New Thread.

Old Thread @ https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/digital-foundry-article-technical-discussion-2022.62678/


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[BRiT]

Reposted from other Thread :

 

[BRiT]

Mortal Shell on Nintendo Switch: an ambitious port with big performance problems

With a surprise late 2022 release on the Nintendo Switch eShop, Mortal Shell: Complete Edition gives Switch users the f…

www.eurogamer.net

Mortal Shell on Nintendo Switch: an ambitious port with big performance problems​

Shellshock.

With a surprise late 2022 release on the Nintendo Switch eShop, Mortal Shell: Complete Edition gives Switch users the full package; a complete port of the 2020 Souls-like, with all DLC and content updates included. At first glance Mortal Shell on Switch actually looks like a success. In much the same vein as other Unreal 4 titles like Mortal Kombat 11, the visual make-up - the core details of the action - translate well to Switch, but having spent the last week this portable release I've got to say there are glaring issues. Specifically, hitting such an ambitious bar of quality comes at a cost to its frame-rate and so it follows, also its playability. The impact is so striking that at times, the Switch version is a genuine struggle to control.

To cut to the chase, compared to the PS4 release from 2020, Mortal Shell on Switch is an obvious downgrade in key areas, though it seems that some elements of the lighting may hail from a more modern build of the codebase PS4 was never updated to. Starting at the top though, you'll notice texture assets are dropped in resolution. Notably the floors, or walls of dungeons, often manifest as a blurry smudge if viewed too close. The best theory is Switch's 4GB of RAM is the limiting factor here - though certain points do still get priority for high quality textures. So for example, character texture-work is identical to PS4's. Armour sets - the so-called 'shells' - are crisply defined in close-up, as is the weaponry. Even cloth physics stay enabled on Switch as we walk the world, with cloaks, draping flags and more billowing dynamically. But yes, the environmental detail does take a serious cutback in select spots.

...

 

[Cyan]

Reposted from other Thread :

this game seems to have been re-launched, or is it just me? I played the PC gamepass version time ago without knowing well what was a souls-like game, but not for much time. It has been recently released on PC gamepass once again. Maybe I will give it a try in the future, nowadays Elden Ring has all my gaming attention along with some racing in Redout 2. I am learning how to play Dark Souls style games with Elden Ring.

That being said, if I may be permitted to mention the ongoing discussion in the DF 2022 thread, imho, if current consoles had different chips, like AMD, Intel or nVidia, instead of all of them being AMD hardware, the technological comparisons would be a LOT more interesting. The GBA is my favourite console, and it was a very interesting hardware, like a SNES on steroids, featuring games that ran much better than on SNES like F-Zero Maximum Velocity (vs the original F-Zero), which also is my preferred F-Zero game.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Convo wasn't really about AMD or Nvidia or Intel but like in yesteryear when every console had a completely different technical make up and entirely different requirements for developers to have to tackle. not just a different flavor of GPU or CPU. I'm not someone who remembers such days fondly tbh

 

[see colon]

The Convo wasn't really about AMD or Nvidia or Intel but like in yesteryear when every console had a completely different technical make up and entirely different requirements for developers to have to tackle. not just a different flavor of GPU or CPU. I'm not someone who remembers such days fondly tbh

I made a new thread to not muddy the waters here with that.

PS2 is still the best designed console in terms of hardware ever (And that isn't a joke) (or is it?)

A response to this post in the now archive digital foundry 2022 thread: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/digital-foundry-article-technical-discussion-2022.62678/post-2284430 and this quote Name me a single gaming machine that was designed in an era where hardware performance doubled every ~2...

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[pjbliverpool]

So I tried Portal RTX on the new GPU today. Runs well enough with DLSS 2 and FG - over 60fps average at all times and feels pretty smooth and responsive.

Graphically it looks nice. Great if you consider how old it is. And the lighting can look very cool under certain situations based on the hand full of levels I played. It may get more impressive yet, but even so I have to say that I wouldn't include it in my top 3 graphics for this year over Requiem which looks gorgeous maxed out at high resolution (and is also great example of frame generation at work).

 

[davis.anthony]

Requiem which looks gorgeous maxed out at high resolution (and is also great example of frame generation at work).

Requiem gets better looking the deeper in to it you get too

Sounds like the 4070ti was worth the wait for you and you deserve a cookie for lasting on that 1070 for as long as you did

You should try The Matrix demo on it.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Requiem gets better looking the deeper in to it you get too

Sounds like the 4070ti was worth the wait for you and you deserve a cookie for lasting on that 1070 for as long as you did

Yeah I'm loving it, the performance differential is insane and I can't emphasise enough how nice it is to finally be able to turn on all those previously greyed out menu options

I'm still working my way through testing various games, old as well as new since DLDSR and 120fps can make even older games look gorgeous.

It's amazing how much the extra power can add to the experience. I have games in my library that I've got for free from various store giveaways that I've not even given a second look, and now trying them out pin sharp, maxed through the roof and butter smooth makes me realise how much gameplay potential there is there.

You should try The Matrix demo on it.

Awesome idea, I'd completely forgot about that. Think I'll download it now!

 

[Dr. Nick]

Please delete if it does not count.

 

[iroboto]

lol Rich's face

 

[techuse]

So I tried Portal RTX on the new GPU today. Runs well enough with DLSS 2 and FG - over 60fps average at all times and feels pretty smooth and responsive.

Graphically it looks nice. Great if you consider how old it is. And the lighting can look very cool under certain situations based on the hand full of levels I played. It may get more impressive yet, but even so I have to say that I wouldn't include it in my top 3 graphics for this year over Requiem which looks gorgeous maxed out at high resolution (and is also great example of frame generation at work).

What are the other 2 that round out your top 3?

 

[pjbliverpool]

I haven't played them directly but from what I've seen I think Calisto and Horizon are fair.

 

[Man from Atlantis]

So I tried Portal RTX on the new GPU today. Runs well enough with DLSS 2 and FG - over 60fps average at all times and feels pretty smooth and responsive.

Graphically it looks nice. Great if you consider how old it is. And the lighting can look very cool under certain situations based on the hand full of levels I played. It may get more impressive yet, but even so I have to say that I wouldn't include it in my top 3 graphics for this year over Requiem which looks gorgeous maxed out at high resolution (and is also great example of frame generation at work).

BTW Regarding Frame Generation quick reminder, Nvidia updated FG since Spider Man Miles Morales driver that to get proper and lowest latency you need to enable both gsync, vsync (nvcp), reflex (ingame) and no frame cap whether ingame, nvcp or rtss.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Please delete if it does not count.

Interesting talk about DLSS3. Contrary to the video I found DLSS3 to be unusable in Witcher 3 but fine in Portal. I need to have a play around with W3 some more though as I think I can get it running better. I was getting a pretty poor framerate without FG (30's to 40's I think from memory), but turning DLSS3 on increased things into the 50's or so, but the latency and pacing was horrendous.

 

[davis.anthony]

Interesting talk about DLSS3. Contrary to the video I found DLSS3 to be unusable in Witcher 3 but fine in Portal. I need to have a play around with W3 some more though as I think I can get it running better. I was getting a pretty poor framerate without FG (30's to 40's I think from memory), but turning DLSS3 on increased things into the 50's or so, but the latency and pacing was horrendous.

What resolution you playing at? And what CPU?

 

[Cyan]

Please delete if it does not count.

Alex seems rested yes, and his voice sounds slightly different to me, maybe because of the mic?

On another note, John might have a point when he mentions the lack of 3840x1600 OLED 38" monitors in the market, which is his sweet spot. This got me curious and he has a point there, I did find an Acer monitor but it can't be purchased anywhere. There were quite a few 37,5"-38" monitors but none of them are OLED and some aren't high frequency.

I can't totally agree when he says that there isn't a lot of innovation in the monitor space though --that's the feeling I have, not with monitors, but with TVs nowadays.

In fact, there is now an OLED monitor -with a Micro Lens Array panel provided by LG- with a heatsink, which allegedly helps OLED to increase their durability and helps to avoid image retention. The video was uploaded today:

 

[pjbliverpool]

What resolution you playing at? And what CPU?

3840x1600 and a 3700x.

Actually the situation is more complicated than I originally thought as I was only testing in a single area and it seems that changing settings without restarting can have a detrimental effect on performance, as can certain performance monitoring tools. This was having a massive disproportionate impact on the input latency and frame pacing. Resetting the game fixed much of that.

I won't comment too much on countryside performance just yet as it's damn confusing. In the one area I tested just outside a small village I was GPU bound (99% usage) at max settings and DLSS Q without FG at about 50fps. Switching to DLSS P brought GPU usage down to the 70%ish range but frame rate barely budged so I can only assume that in that spot I was also CPU bound at virtually the same frame rate. Turning on FG here boosted frames by about 50% but the game felt more laggy to me. Although that could have been down to what I described int he above paragraph.

When I go to a city I can become very clearly CPU bound. At the point I tested stood still in a busy square with everything maxed I was getting a steady 24fps. This stayed consistent regardless of whether I ran at native res or DLSS Ultra Performance. But turning of FG gets me up to around 50fps and its clearly a much better experience.

Moving forwards I think I'll play with it on by default and see how I get on. I'm ot convinced it's giving me a better experience in the countryside despite the higher frame rate, but in cities or presumably anywhere I'm heavily CPU bound it's a clear win.

One massive issue in the cities though is the text/hud that pops up above every NPC. FG does not like that AT ALL. It's a flickery mess and arguably unplayable. But I understand NV is aiming to fix that later this month so we'll see...

 

[davis.anthony]

3840x1600 and a 3700x.

Actually the situation is more complicated than I originally thought as I was only testing in a single area and it seems that changing settings without restarting can have a detrimental effect on performance, as can certain performance monitoring tools. This was having a massive disproportionate impact on the input latency and frame pacing. Resetting the game fixed much of that.

I won't comment too much on countryside performance just yet as it's damn confusing. In the one area I tested just outside a small village I was GPU bound (99% usage) at max settings and DLSS Q without FG at about 50fps. Switching to DLSS P brought GPU usage down to the 70%ish range but frame rate barely budged so I can only assume that in that spot I was also CPU bound at virtually the same frame rate. Turning on FG here boosted frames by about 50% but the game felt more laggy to me. Although that could have been down to what I described int he above paragraph.

When I go to a city I can become very clearly CPU bound. At the point I tested stood still in a busy square with everything maxed I was getting a steady 24fps. This stayed consistent regardless of whether I ran at native res or DLSS Ultra Performance. But turning of FG gets me up to around 50fps and its clearly a much better experience.

Moving forwards I think I'll play with it on by default and see how I get on. I'm ot convinced it's giving me a better experience in the countryside despite the higher frame rate, but in cities or presumably anywhere I'm heavily CPU bound it's a clear win.

One massive issue in the cities though is the text/hud that pops up above every NPC. FG does not like that AT ALL. It's a flickery mess and arguably unplayable. But I understand NV is aiming to fix that later this month so we'll see...

If you want a cheap CPU+Mobo upgrade that should cost you a minimum amount of cash drop me a message and I'll show you what I've moved too.

For your reference

These were taken at the windmill not far from the very first town you get to in the game.

2560x1440 RT Ultra settings with a 3060ti (I'm also using the mod that increases RT performance)

 

[Dictator]

teresting talk about DLSS3. Contrary to the video I found DLSS3 to be unusable in Witcher 3 but fine in Portal. I need to have a play around with W3 some more though as I think I can get it running better. I was getting a pretty poor framerate without FG (30's to 40's I think from memory), but turning DLSS3 on increased things into the 50's or so, but the latency and pacing was horrendous.

What is your CPU?
If you have Bad frame Times to start in TW3 -DLSS3 cannot help
Edit: 3700x is pretty awful in tw3, Like 28-35 fps in cities with big frame time lurches.

That explains why it probably looked and felt awful