Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

[Riddlewire]

I understand if the Series S has issues, but if you get the same behavior on both the Series X and S, there has to be an issue that isn't just simply hardware and would lead me to believe the problem is in the software somewhere.

You can't make that extrapolation.
They're not the same hardware.

Series X runs at 78% higher resolution than PS5. That could easily explain any performance problems on that machine.
Series S has a memory configuration that might make a perfect 60fps difficult to achieve on that machine.

No definitive conclusions can be drawn.

Previously, DF tested this game with FPS Boost on S/X. As Richard calls it a "flat 60fps" was achieved by both consoles. The difference with Ubisoft's patch is that resolution has been increased by 33% on Series S and 433% on Series X.

 

[Jay]

Good patch for all platforms.
Runs sold and decent IQ.
Only problem I saw was the minute long XSX loosing the plot bit.
Don't see the PS5 resolution as an issue or framerate on XS.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

It's a very solid upgrade, the 60fps is extremely consistent on the PS5 and the controller response is excellent. Just 'feels' really good to play. With they would bring this upgrade to New Dawn.

Have it on my PC (12400F, 3060) too, and by default the Dunia autosave stutter bug is atrocious on the PC (tying your saving thread to the main rendering thread is bizarre), the Resistance Mod with one of the two autosave disabler options is absolutely required. Unfortunately the more thorough version of these mods breaks the story progression (capture parties never come in), albeit if you hate those interruptions it can actually be a bonus - just play the region until you get to the final encounter notification, then exit and disable the mod to start it, then re-enable it. Still a hassle though.

Outside of that there are often tiny micro-stutters with any form of vsync or framecap enabled when traversing that are not anywhere near as bad as the autosave ones, but do produce a noticeable tiny hitch to 59fps on a 60hz fixed refresh display. Turning off vsync and they don't occur, they basically scale with framerate, so it's something perhaps due to inadequate buffered frames with vsync, which may explain why DXVK can solve these completely and get a very similar experience to the PS5 version in terms of fluidity (when combined with the Resistance Mod). But...then you get increased latency under Vulkan, while not drastic is still noticeable. Also DXVK can't manage vram transfers to and from system ram, so my 12GB of vram with the HD texture pack gets filled up after a few hours of play and you can get random perf drops as it's reading render targets/textures from system ram instead.

Frustrating game to wrangle, especially as the PC version with the HD texture pack looks so much better and there are a ton of mods. But damn I hate those micro stutters and I hate added latency, so PS5 it is.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I'm not suggesting it's as streamlined as the experience you'd get on a console. Only that it qualifies for the description "grabbing a controller and gaming comfortably from the couch, combined with the low-maintenance, instant-on aspect."

Regarding the multiple game clients, you should try using GoG. It integrates with most other clients including all the major ones (GoG, Epic, Xbox, Steam, Origin, Ubi, Amazon) so you can launch all of your games from a (better than IMO) Steam like interface. It'll even launch the games if Steam for example is sitting in it's often used "restart me because I've updated myself state". So you don't have to suffer the 1'Restart' mouse click and 5 second wait that frustrates DSoup so.

It hasn't had working EA App support for - well, ever, which is a problem if you have EA games since Origin is dead now. Also Ubisoft integration doesn't work without editing a config file and hasn't for months. Unfortunately outside of promotions for their own store, it really looks like CD Projekt has basically abandoned it. The decision to leave much of the store integration to the open source community to handle plug-ins was a big mistake imo, as those EA/Ubi plugins have basically been abandoned. As such I'm using Playnite now, I'd prefer Galaxy as I like it's interface better but it's been sorely neglected on the integration front for a while now.

So yeah, as someone who exclusively PC games on a TV, it's a pretty big gap between that and the simplicity of a console. I mean it's 'workable' sure, and as you mentioned there are a ton of advantages (eg: controller dead zone problems like in RE4 on xbox? No prob, just use an anti-deadzone setting in Steaminput!), and apps like Galaxy/Playnite help - but damn even when they work, they're a pretty big hassle to setup. Every time I do a clean install it's setting up 5+ launchers, logging into them with 2 factor authentication, then installing Playnite/GOG, and logging into 5 separate authentication prompts again, also with 2 factor. Jesus.

 

[pjbliverpool]

It hasn't had working EA App support for - well, ever, which is a problem if you have EA games since Origin is dead now.

You can still access EA games through GoG. They just don't show up as installed so you have to launch them from the Owned Games view rather than the Installed Games view (or pin them on the left as you can see I've done with NFS Heat). This does result in the EA app launching though where you then have to launch the game from again, so yes, EA is a pain, but it still works after a fashion.

Also Ubisoft integration doesn't work without editing a config file and hasn't for months.

Ubisoft works fine. It shows in the menu as connection lost but the games show and sync properly when installed and launch directly from the GoG interface as normal. I play Valhalla through it regularly.

All that said, I hadn't heard of Playnite so just been looking it up and it looks pretty good to me. The interface looks pretty customisable to styles I'd like so I might give it a try.

but damn even when they work, they're a pretty big hassle to setup. Every time I do a clean install it's setting up 5+ launchers, logging into them with 2 factor authentication, then installing Playnite/GOG, and logging into 5 separate authentication prompts again, also with 2 factor. Jesus.

Yeah but how often do you clean install? My last one was when I got my SATA SSD and Windows 10 about 8 years ago lol. I agree the initial setup is appreciably more complex on the PC, but I did note that in my first post on the subject. Once setup though, the experience can certainly meet the criteria of couch based gaming using a controller as the sole interface, low-maintenance and start up times on par with console.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Yeah but how often do you clean install? My last one was when I got my SATA SSD and Windows 10 about 8 years ago lol. I agree the initial setup is appreciably more complex on the PC, but I did note that in my first post on the subject. Once setup though, the experience can certainly meet the criteria of couch based gaming using a controller as the sole interface, low-maintenance and start up times on par with console.

Sorry, but no way. You will absolutely have to have a wireless keyboard/trackpad on hand for one, and due to the requirement of launchers, absolutely not game startup times in most cases. Steam and Windows store games? Yeah sure, they launch quickly, but unless you keep 5+ launchers resident in memory at the same time, you inevitably will be sitting at the desktop waiting for your Epic/EA/Rockstar/Ubisoft client to load - and that's assuming they don't have an update needing to be installed if you haven't launched them recently, which is often the case.

PC couch gaming was actually more viable in the recent past IMO. The preponderance of launchers has definitely but a crimp in that usability.

 

[techuse]

You can still access EA games through GoG. They just don't show up as installed so you have to launch them from the Owned Games view rather than the Installed Games view (or pin them on the left as you can see I've done with NFS Heat). This does result in the EA app launching though where you then have to launch the game from again, so yes, EA is a pain, but it still works after a fashion.



Ubisoft works fine. It shows in the menu as connection lost but the games show and sync properly when installed and launch directly from the GoG interface as normal. I play Valhalla through it regularly.

All that said, I hadn't heard of Playnite so just been looking it up and it looks pretty good to me. The interface looks pretty customisable to styles I'd like so I might give it a try.



Yeah but how often do you clean install? My last one was when I got my SATA SSD and Windows 10 about 8 years ago lol. I agree the initial setup is appreciably more complex on the PC, but I did note that in my first post on the subject. Once setup though, the experience can certainly meet the criteria of couch based gaming using a controller as the sole interface, low-maintenance and start up times on par with console.

You didn't do a reinstall of Windows when changing to the 3700x?

 

[pjbliverpool]

Sorry, but no way. You will absolutely have to have a wireless keyboard/trackpad on hand for one,

For what? Outside of entering the initial logon pin, what do you need a mouse/keyboard for for a fully configured couch experience? Note this is assuming you are using something like Controller Companion that allows you to use your controller as a mouse.

and due to the requirement of launchers, absolutely not game startup times in most cases. Steam and Windows store games? Yeah sure, they launch quickly, but unless you keep 5+ launchers resident in memory at the same time, you inevitably will be sitting at the desktop waiting for your Epic/EA/Rockstar/Ubisoft client to load - and that's assuming they don't have an update needing to be installed if you haven't launched them recently, which is often the case.

That's exactly what I do. Why wouldn't I? They take up less than 1GB in total of my 32GB system memory which very rarely hits over 50% utilisation. They don't take up any processing resources, so having them pre-loaded in the background is a complete non-issue. It also sidesteps any update problems. If you son't do it this way then there's not much point in using an aggregator app like GoG. With the other launchers already running in the background though you don't even have to know they exist. The games just launch from GoG/Playnite directly.

You didn't do a reinstall of Windows when changing to the 3700x?

I didn't see a need as Windows picks up all the new hardware automatically. I've had no issues with it at all. I guess I could have taken the opportunity to re-image at that point, but even if I did, how often do people update their CPU's/motherboards? Not often enough to make the re-setup work a significant factor IMO. I'd be far, far more concerned about getting other aspects of my system back to the way they were than I would my games launchers.

 

[techuse]

I didn't see a need as Windows picks up all the new hardware automatically. I've had no issues with it at all. I guess I could have taken the opportunity to re-image at that point, but even if I did, how often do people update their CPU's/motherboards? Not often enough to make the re-setup work a significant factor IMO. I'd be far, far more concerned about getting other aspects of my system back to the way they were than I would my games launchers.

I'm not partaking in the discussion with Flappy, I was just under the impression that not reinstalling after a motherboard change leads to issues. I've always done it and wondered if I've been wasting my time.

 

[davis.anthony]

I'm not partaking in the discussion with Flappy, I was just under the impression that not reinstalling after a motherboard change leads to issues. I've always done it and wondered if I've been wasting my time.

I moved from a Ryzen 5 3600 to a 12th Intel CPU on the same install.

I've yet to have a single issue and I've been on this Intel CPU now for close to 6 months.

 

[techuse]

I moved from a Ryzen 5 3600 to a 12th Intel CPU on the same install.

I've yet to have a single issue and I've been on this Intel CPU now for close to 6 months.

Good to know. I will have to change my platform sooner than later as I cant even use W11 and that saves me some hassle.

 

[davis.anthony]

Good to know. I will have to change my platform sooner than later as I cant even use W11 and that saves me some hassle.

It's not like the old days where just the thought of changing a motherboard with the same CPU socket but a different chipset would cause Windows XP to BSOD

 

[trinibwoy]

Did John recently catch the RT bug or was he always a fan? The point on RTX marketing sowing anti-RT sentiment is spot on.

 

[Dictator]

Did John recently catch the RT bug or was he always a fan? The point on RTX marketing sowing anti-RT sentiment is spot on.

John has been on Board for RT since 2018 (and probably Long before)

Blast from the past ->

 

[Inuhanyou]

Did John recently catch the RT bug or was he always a fan? The point on RTX marketing sowing anti-RT sentiment is spot on.

The easiest way to get rid of anti rt weirdos is to say lumen is RT.

It's a far more optimized and consumer oriented version of path tracing for some of the most obvious features of RT like lighting. The fact that we are getting it essentially baked into an engine regardless of if you have hardware good at RT or not cannot be overstated in its significance

You can call me crazy in a few years if I'm wrong, but software lumen is gonna be an absolute game changer and do the absolute most out of any current solution to bring RT into the mainstream of gaming.

 

[SmooTh]

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Very solid video as usual @Dictator. Agreed that interlaced mode is completely broken, it's back to pre-DX12 RE series patch versions. Come on man.

On a related note, as you note the DLSS mod has an issue with flashing lights on specular surfaces, this is due to how it handles some post process effects such as bloom and it occurs across all RE engine games as I noted here. Thankfully though the mod creator Praydog is looking into potential fixes:

 

[Jay]

@Dictator
So lego builders has RT on XS now, what about PS5?

 

[Cyan]

Very solid video as usual @Dictator. Agreed that interlaced mode is completely broken, it's back to pre-DX12 RE series patch versions. Come on man.

On a related note, as you note the DLSS mod has an issue with flashing lights on specular surfaces, this is due to how it handles some post process effects such as bloom and it occurs across all RE engine games as I noted here. Thankfully though the mod creator Praydog is looking into potential fixes:

View attachment 8544

gotta give this a try, hope it works with Intel XeSS.

Gotta check the Optimized Settings video from @Dictator , this one is going to be very interesting since I didn't fiddle much tbh and the game is relatively demanding even without RT -in fact RT in this game is kinda limited, the power consumption and GPU usage doesn't change much vs non RT-

 

[Cyan]

at 0:46 the dreaded "FATAL D3D ERROR(25)" appears. I thought it was an Intel thing just by the end of the first level when you find Luis Serra, but no. I fixed it disabling RT. Little life's mysteries.

btw, most recent Intel driver for RE4 Remake and Elden Ring RT. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/726609/intel-arc-iris-xe-graphics-whql-windows.html