davis.anthony
Veteran
So why are you on this forum if you're not going to trust or believe what people are going to tell you?
Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
- Status
So why are you on this forum if you're not going to trust or believe what people are going to tell you?
is that a requirement in this forum? that you should believe everything people tell you?
davis.anthony
Veteran
Well yes as that's how conversations between people typically work in this place.
That's how people learn, develop knowledge and present constructive arguments by having faith and trust.
If your approach is to dismiss without good reason what's the point?
I just wanted to point out that Andrew (sorry for bringing you back into this) mentioned both Vulkan and Direct X 12 when he said what he said.
At least to me, in my uninformed opinion, it was either a case of "Hey developers, be careful what you wish for." or the IHV's going, "Why do we have to keep optimizing drivers for every game?" Considering both dx12 and Vulkan try to give developers a lot of control over what happens on the GPU, it seems like some really high-end devs wanted more control, and Microsoft and Khronos group forgot about what most of the industry really needed. Maybe they could have found an in-between solution that would allow game-ready drivers and, at the same time, give developers more control when they want it.
If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me.
At least to me, in my uninformed opinion, it was either a case of "Hey developers, be careful what you wish for." or the IHV's going, "Why do we have to keep optimizing drivers for every game?" Considering both dx12 and Vulkan try to give developers a lot of control over what happens on the GPU, it seems like some really high-end devs wanted more control, and Microsoft and Khronos group forgot about what most of the industry really needed. Maybe they could have found an in-between solution that would allow game-ready drivers and, at the same time, give developers more control when they want it.
If I'm mistaken, please enlighten me.
davis.anthony
Veteran
Aw man, he's gone Just as my video finished uploading as well.
But for everyone else, in its current state Spiderman is now very smooth on PC's that don't have the latest and greatest CPU's.
photos.app.goo.gl
But for everyone else, in its current state Spiderman is now very smooth on PC's that don't have the latest and greatest CPU's.
0 new items by Anthony Davis
photos.app.goo.gl
Last edited:
Aw man, he's gone Just as my video finished uploading as well.
But for everyone else, in its current state Spiderman is now very smooth on PC with CPU's that aren't the latest and greatest.
0 new items by Anthony Davis
I know it's an old game now but it'd be great to see Alex revisit the CPU performance here now that the latest patch is supposed to address some of the games previous CPU limitations.
Also I just wanted to point out that despite it still being performance constrained by poor CPU threading, Calistos shader comp stuttering issues were resolved quite soon after launch. Alex did a piece on it confirming as much.
davis.anthony
Veteran
Maybe it could be a part of DF Direct?
They have a 5 minute section where they show quick test results of the previous month's games to show if there's been any improvements.
That isn't fair, not everyone has the stuff or the time needed to do a framerate graph video.
davis.anthony
Veteran
I do have the ability to add a frame time graph but might take pictures rather than a video.
That'll quiet him down as frame time is a perfect 16.6ms flat line.
Its fair when the said person is persistent that the game runs smoothly on their end.
Was it fair that he nitpicked over my claims that my 2700 played the game locked (almost...) 60 FPS?
- He first demanded that I test Times Square and not some random location
- Then he demanded frametime graph
- Then he nitpicked about how it dropped to 56 for a second
He battled me over to extreme extends on the mere definition of "locked". Now he must defend his "ZERO stutters" and "perfectly fine" claims.
If he's so nitpicky, persistence and pervasive in his behaviours, I'd expect him to do a video where frametime graph is open in TIMES SQUARE...
Or should I've rejected his demands saying "I don't have the stuff or time, what I say is true, bye"?
If one has a claim, then they should clearly prove it. At least that was his mindset. Back then. It is only fair I ask the same.
"I do have the ability to add a frame time graph but might take pictures rather than a video."
Nope. It's gotta be a video in Times Square with fast swinging and camera movement. If I see a single hitch, stutter or frametime spike, it is game over for your claims of "perfectly fine".
Just like how you were persistent on how a single dropped frame nullified my claims of "locked 60", now a single stutter will nullify your answer of "it is perfect on my end" to the user's claims of IO stutters being existent in Spiderman.
Proof that he says his game is PERFECT (as in PERFECT, not a single stutter should occur. THAT is the definition of PERFECT. like, when I said locked 60, you battled me over the definition of locked 60 and how it should not even drop a single frame. here ya go, now you must come to terms with the definition of being PERFECT.
Anthony davis replied: "And yet perfectly fine on my PC."
Additional proof of claiming NO stutters;
"But I have recorded a video of Spiderman running on my PC at max settings at a rock solid 60fps with zero stutter on my $140 CPU."
Means that he does not get I/O stutters. Let's put that to test with an actual high fidelity video with frametime graph open + Times Square + swinging + camera movement.
Video should be at least 3 minutes long (as he persistently wanted even more back then), should include swings over Times Square repeatedly.
As I said, frametime graph has to be opened.
I won't even care if you don't feel stutters. If I see a hitch, stall or stutter in your frametime graph in the 3 minute Times Square fast swinging + camera movement (important, if these two does not exist and if you only stand idle atop a perch or something, it won't count), I don't believe your claims.
Last edited:
Well yes and no
as always answer is complicated. “ Those of you, who – just like me – deal with those low-level graphics APIs in their everyday work, may wonder if these APIs provide the right level of abstraction. I know it will sound controversial, but sometimes I get a feeling they are at the exactly worst possible level – so low they are difficult to learn and use properly, while so high they still hide some implementation details important for getting a good performance”
Great read.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Both Nvidia and AMD have screen recording software a click away, it takes less time to record a video than make a couple of posts here. The frametime data is already on screen. Spiderman's performance, especially with RT (and even without) varies drastically depending on where you are in the city.
Uploading a video that's barely recognizable as 'evidence' of anything serves little purpose. Like, 240p video? Is this being recorded on a flip phone?
BTW, Spiderman's CPU issues were not just with RT. One of the problems that was only touched on by a couple of reviews early on was the issue with culling performance when you would leap over a tall building and the world would come into view, this would reliably cause a stutter on my i5-12400 as there was a big CPU hit. I can't speak to if that has been resolved with later patches though, maybe Miles Morales optimized in this area.
Last edited:
All that aside though, I assume you do agree that the the original claim that Spiderman "suffers from IO stutters" is totally false. Given you can effectively run it smoothly on an old 2700x?
davis.anthony
Veteran
It's 1080p on mine.
Maybe stop trying to watch it on a potato?
But off screen shots attached.
As I said, the game is perfectly smooth.
Even the hardest section of the game (Times Square) is a perfectly locked 16.6ms and I've yet to see it drop or stutter.
I have a 12400f and the game is now in a completely different place in terms of frame consistency than it was at release.
Attachments
That's my problem, I should've said ALMOST locked 60. In the end, I retreated back then, saying that I shouldn't have claimed it was a locked 60. The game is bound to have I/O stutters. It is literally unavoidable.
I'm not saying the game is unplayable or anything. The guy literally refuses to admit that the game has stutters and blames others' computers instead. Even wents extremes to say that we should ignore reviews. So
- You should ignore reviews if they say a game has stutters
- If your PC indeed has stutters, it is your PC and you should fix your race engine (however so?)
Where 3 minutes video with fast swinging IN and OUT OF Times Square? (You must swing in to the Times Square from a outer location, then swing out to a different location and then come back. If you do not do this and still claim you don't have stutters, I won't simply take your claims serious. I/O stutters HAPPEN when you leave and reenter that location. You should at least start swinging 300 meters away from Times Square, arrive there, pass through it while moving the camera around to bask in the Times Square, and then leave. All of this should be recorded or your claims are busted. If your rig/game is so perfect, what I say should be plausible and achieveable on your end. I'm sure it will be an easy task for you.
Good luck.
(Also show the graphical settings in the video, live, without obstructions, in the very same video. I can't know if you are going to try manipulate the video with low texture preset to reduce strain on I/O operations)
Burden of proof is on you as the claimer. Or do not claim stuff. Good luck.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Even when downloaded it's barely recognizable.
Nothing to do with my PC (what PC would have problems playing 1080p video made in the last decade regardless?).
I mean this really shouldn't be that difficult my man - use Shadowplay, stick it on youtube, or just hit prntscrn a few times?
I'd assume so, especially with the improved performance of Miles (which is actually heavier on the PS5). But just that video is really the worst possible way to show it.
Last edited:
Wait, what review says Spiderman has stutters on sufficiently capable hardware? Alex didn't mention anything about it and if anyone was going to pick it up, it's him.
Momentary drops below an arbitrary target frame rate aren't stutters unless they're specifically caused by significant and noticeable frame time spikes, and they usually occur regardless of hardware performance. I've seen no evidence of that in Spiderman at all, let alone spikes which have been directly attributed to IO issues.
- Status
Similar threads
