Delay in Blu-Ray effect PS3?

[Titanio]

Agreed 100%. The early buyers could care less for core as the early buyers want the best. But in this instance wouldn't they also want the $600 ps3? I mean it is 40gb more space and hdmi

Undoubtedly there is a bit of "wanting the best", and I think you'll see that in 60GB PS3 sales in the first x months also. But I'm wondering if there'll end up being a longer term credibility issue with the 360 core...I guess we'll see.

The issue I take with their sku approach is they are forcing high-end features to the minimum standard. By doing this, they ensure a higher pricepoint throughout the consoles lifespan

What's new, says Sony It's not like they haven't done this quite successfully before!

I think it's worth remembering all the time that while the price differences are quite high in absolute terms right now, they're not out of line in proportional terms with what we've seen before. And price differences will scale proportionately..there won't always be $100/$150 difference in the console, it'll be the 25-50% difference. And once you go below a certain level in absolute terms, such a difference can be quite irrelevant in the face of other issues as history has shown. Price no longer is a weapon, perception is the weapon.

But who knows? We don't know what "other issues" might arise this time.

wrt ps2-360 functionality: your sidestepping the obvious. The functionality of the format is proven. It has been proven for 10+ years. People are ok with buying memory cards and for so many of you to be up in arms over them all of a sudden is rediculous. Where were the complaints before it was announced that ps3 had hdd standard? The market is ok with memcards. It's a standard. If you don't like it though at least you have the option to buy the hdd or the premium pack from the getgo.

Options are beautiful arent they?

I'm not saying anything is wrong with memory cards or that model per se (even though I hope to never buy one myself again), I just think the offerings made by 360 are such that they really really highlight the false economies of the 360 core. Is that sustainable in the longer term, even among the, shall we say, "less aware" consumer? We'll see.

And options are good..to a point. Obviously some things ought to be mandated as standard for the benefit of all.

 

[TheChefO]

there won't always be $100/$150 difference in the console

Agreed - the prices will drop and eventually the ps3 should be able to get under $200. The problem with that theory is that the world isn't stopping while Sony gets it's manufacturing costs in order. The world is continuing to move on and by the time they hit $200 I see no reason MS would not already be at <$150. Now to an average parent these costs make little difference, but lets consider what will be happening to the rest of the gaming ecosystem. In between the launch time for ps3 and the $200 pricepoint, the 360 has continued to price drop and sell and get another multiplat and price drop and sell and another multiplat etc. Pretty soon it's to the point where gamers want the 360 over the ps2 not for 360's great hd or hdd or whatever else ms comes up with. They will want it because by that time it has become the place to play the most variety of games. Why? Because it is in the most homes and devs like sales.

This is all speaking from a gaming point of view and strictly my opinion of course

 

[Arwin]

Yet we saw where it got them at retail. It's a minor issue really and to pretend it ruins the core to not have a hdd and have to {gasp} buy memory cards again is rediculous.

It's not. The memory card is 60% of the price of the HDD. The comparative value for money is insane. The memory card should at least be included, like it is on the PSP. What they should do is build an Xbox memory card wrapper for CompaqFlash or whatever kind of cheap memory is out there, just like you have the memory card cases for the smaller pro duo ones. Then they can easily get a good deal on tiny memory cards, and they can package different sizes with little extra cost.

The biggest mistake in the business of innovation is assuming that what went five years ago holds today. At the very least, you'll have to make a very good analysis of relevant changes before you do. In the Netherlands for instance, 61% of people are now connected to high speed internet at home. Things change.

I don't think the memory card option is completely unviable. But if you do it, do it right.

 

[TheChefO]

I don't think the memory card option is completely unviable. But if you do it, do it right.

Agreed - a memcard price drop/bundle is in order and should be addressed this fall.

 

[Titanio]

Of course MS will also drop, and of course they'll be cheaper - or should be. My point is simply that once you're getting to the stage where 360 might be $150 and PS3 $200 or so, pricing itself may be very irrelevant indeed. It'll be down to issues of perception, generally (re. games, brand etc.). I'm just saying that Sony is no stranger to that situation at all...it's just that everyone, barring Nintendo, is starting at higher pricepoints than before this time.

 

[TheChefO]

Of course MS will also drop, and of course they'll be cheaper - or should be. My point is simply that once you're getting to the stage where 360 might be $150 and PS3 $200 or so, pricing itself may be very irrelevant indeed. It'll be down to issues of perception, generally (re. games, brand etc.). I'm just saying that Sony is no stranger to that situation at all...it's just that everyone, barring Nintendo, is starting at higher pricepoints than before this time.

I take it you didn't read the whole post. What will happen in the meantime while everyone is waiting for a sub $200 ps3?

 

[London Geezer]

Of course at some point pricing is not an issue. At one point PS2 was outselling Xbox by a whole lot, even though it was more expensive.

This thread is a bit off topic now, so i'll post this:

Blu-ray powered VAIO laptops to be released next week


That should provide some info at last. And it should shut up some kids.

 

[Titanio]

I take it you didn't read the whole post. What will happen in the meantime while everyone is waiting for a sub $200 ps3?

Same thing the sub-$200 market always does - wait for their desired system to come under $200 and play their existing systems in the meantime. One thing that market won't do is hop en masse on the first system to hit under that point just because it's at that price. Enter "other issues".

 

[one]

Technically a BD drive is already available with bundled softwares such as WinDVD BD to play BD-ROM so BD is already launched hardware-wise.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20060610/etc_bddrive.html

All these OEM drives adopt Matsushita SW-5582
http://www.slidirect.com/web/do/pub/sku/view?categoryId=43&id=105
and actually the new VAIO has this drive too.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Same thing the sub-$200 market always does - wait for their desired system to come under $200 and play their existing systems in the meantime. One thing that market won't do is hop en masse on the first system to hit under that point just because it's at that price. Enter "other issues".

I think Sony has made big noise about not selling PS3 with a loss, so I wouldn't be so sure about it going below 200 or even 300 anytime soon. KK just said that they are making money with hardware this time too since they can't increase software costs.

One more thing about the price difference issue. X360 range is 299-399, PS3 will be 499-599. You can walk in to a store and walkaway with X360 and spend 200 less than the competition, even with the memory card issue, that is still an option, just because the PS "core" includes more than X360 core doesn't mean that the option to go cheaper doesn't exist and same goes for the premium editions too 399 vs 599, PS3 offers more, but it can still be considered competion. Well anyways we all know the numbers so it's just a point of view differences working here, so that's enough.

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

Ugh??

Show me where Ken said that they would be making a profit on hardware this go around (initially, at least). Sony has already told the appropriate entities to expect rather massive initial losses once the thing debuts.

Even at 600 dollars they'll be losing a pretty penny.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Ugh??

Show me where Ken said that they would be making a profit on hardware this go around (initially, at least). Sony has already told the appropriate entities to expect rather massive initial losses once the thing debuts.

Even at 600 dollars they'll be losing a pretty penny.

Well I read it right here on this thread

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31328

At the very least it gives me an impression that PS3 will not reduce in price like previous Playstations.

 

[Titanio]

At the very least it gives me an impression that PS3 will not reduce in price like previous Playstations.

Not wishing to lose (as) much money on the hardware doesn't mean prices won't come down! They actually usually make their most profit when the hardware price is lower! The curves for profit and prices tend to go in opposite directions - price goes down, profit goes up.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Not wishing to lose (as) much money on the hardware doesn't mean prices won't come down!.

No but wishing to make money or not lose at all with the hardware means that the price probably won't go down as fast as before when making loss with hardware was not a problem.

They actually usually make their most profit when the hardware price is lower! The curves for profit and prices tend to go in opposite directions - price goes down, profit goes up.

Could you be little more specific how this kind of scenario holds water, do you mean more profits from software because of larger installed base or what?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Could you be little more specific how this kind of scenario holds water, do you mean more profits from software because of larger installed base or what?

He means the savings on hardware cost reductions are higher than the price drops they pass on. If at launch PS3 is break even, by the time the price drops $100, Sony might be making $120 saving on it. And by the time the console is $200, it maybe costs only $100 to make. Illustrative figures only - I don't know what the real margins are like.

 

[Titanio]

No but wishing to make money or not lose at all with the hardware means that the price probably won't go down as fast as before when making loss with hardware was not a problem.

It doesn't necessarily say anything about the rate of price drops, but more - wait for it - the price the system starts at. And obviously PS3 is starting higher. But I still think they're probably losing money on those units, but maybe not as much as they have before.

But it begs the question where that roughly expected $1bn loss from SCE for the year til March 07 is coming from

Could you be little more specific how this kind of scenario holds water, do you mean more profits from software because of larger installed base or what?

It has been true that as hardware cycles progress both the price of the hardware to the consumer and the profits made on that hardware decrease and increase respectively. The PS2 now at $129 is making Sony a handsome profit per unit sold, whereas obviously when it launched at $300 it was making a significant loss. Obviously that's down to volumes...PS2 is massively cheaper to manufacture now, 100m units later, than it was in 2000.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Good points there Titanio.

 

[mckmas8808]

I seen some HD-DVD movies for the first time yesterday at Best Buy and feel in love. Not with HD-DVDs but high def movies in general. I'll be a fool to pay $500 for a HD-DVD player when I'm going to be buying a PS3 this November for the same price.

But the movie looked some freaking nice. People here (Powerkeg) need to stop saying that people might not adopt High Def movies.

When looking at the HD-DVD movies compared to the DVDs on the other TVs it wasn't even close.

 

[wco81]

ABout high-def movies adoption:

modernhometheater.com/howto/early_adopter/

Someone at AVS posted that digital TV sales through the end of May was over 6 million units, which represents over a 300% increase over the same point in 2005.

Of that number, 85% are said to be HDTV. Surprised it's not higher because in the US, only ED plasmas are not HD digital TVs. Or maybe they're including low-res LCD TVs too.

Busiest TV buying time is still to come, in November and December.

 

[mckmas8808]

ABout high-def movies adoption:

modernhometheater.com/howto/early_adopter/

Someone at AVS posted that digital TV sales through the end of May was over 6 million units, which represents over a 300% increase over the same point in 2005.

Of that number, 85% are said to be HDTV. Surprised it's not higher because in the US, only ED plasmas are not HD digital TVs. Or maybe they're including low-res LCD TVs too.

Busiest TV buying time is still to come, in November and December.

Exactly. We all know HDTV and either HD-DVD or Blu-ray will be the leading may to watch movies. People buying these HDTVs will not choose to buy DVDs for years on in unless BDs and HD-DVDs cost over $30 for a long time.

Which won't happen because you can buy $25 HD-DVDs today so....