Console Maker's OS

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by FATBOT, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Davros

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    Do consoles not use virtual memory ?
     
  2. 3dilettante

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    The systems themselves do, but the game allocation is pinned.
    There is a possible exception, which is evidenced via omission for Sucker Punch's engine.
    The flexible memory allocation of 500 MB may be flex memory, which can be pageable if it exceeds 500 MB.
    Flex memory was leaked as being 1GB made of half RAM and half disk. Either the other half was used but not graphed because it is not part of the RAM total, or they purposefully kept the slice down at the size where it didn't need to page out.
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    They've not necessarily had HDDs as standard for streaming. But conventional VM is overkill for a console. Highly optimised asset streaming has been commonplace for over a decade, and devs are free and able to use the HDD to stream whatever content they want. The OSes could use VM too, but I think responsiveness is a key desire for their machines.
     
  4. Lalaland

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    Dear Lord let's not make virtual memory a thing on consoles, we had enough hitching with asset streaming last go around without bringing VM into the equation. Ever since decent VM came with Windows (let's say '95 although I'd accept XP as an answer ;) ) my one unbending rule for systems was to minimise VM swapping to whatever extent I could
     
  5. 3dilettante

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    This is dependent on what people mean by virtual memory.
    The memory protection and address translation hardware is part of the virtual memory system.

    The system has to explicitly to give the game a memory space that pretends to be otherwise.
     
  6. Lalaland

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    Very true with all this talk of DOS I just had a flashback to RAMDisk :D
     
  7. ERP

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    I know of at least one VERY high profile PS3 title that by most here would be considered amongst the most technically competent titles to ship on the platform and uses VM paging.
     
  8. dobwal

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    MS calls it providing predictability to devs while embracing an unpredictable future.

    There weren't even i/android based phones or tabs when the 360 and PS3 were released. Look how much has changed since 2005/2006. No one was predicting smartphones and smartphone based tablets servicing 100s of millions of users generating billions of dollars selling tiny apps annually in 2005.

    3 GBs worth of reservation may seem like too much now, but it doesn't mean it will even be enough in 5 years time.
     
  9. Shifty Geezer

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  10. London-boy

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    Even in 5 years, they'd need to come up with some serious resource hogs and their grandmas to justify taking away 40% of the RAM, especially considering how they've made every effort to market the ps4 as a gaming device first and foremost - to the point of still not having sorted out features the ps3 is doing right now much better than the new hardware. All a bit contradicting to me, but what do I know.
     
  11. Nesh

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    I d like to know which game is this but I guess its under NDA?
     
  12. JPT

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    I agree with you, but if the reason Sony did not put cross game chat in the PS3, due to not having enough available resources available in the system to do it. Then is it not prudent to be a bit careful in the beginning of this generation?

    Would it also mean any game would be so much greater that its worth maybe not getting a bulletpoint feature like the cross game chat last generation?
     
  13. TheAlSpark

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    Maybe they can cache the entire store (title graphics/covers). :p
     
  14. London-boy

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    To keep it available at all times, for those pesky last minute purchases in the middle of the night. No slowdowns means no time to change your mind. Genius.:twisted:
     
  15. MrFox

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    No no no, why stop there. It's to start downloading what they think you want to purchase, when you click buy, it's already in RAM. "Precognition Play(tm)"
     
  16. DSoup

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    They actually announced that at the 22 February 2013 reveal. I.e. The PS4 would get to know your tastes from which games you play the most that'll downloads demos of stuff you'll like.
     
  17. Lucid_Dreamer

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    I didn't know reserving a large amount of RAM automatically meant your console is not a gaming console, first and foremost. From what I understood, the reservation was one of the last things decided upon (obvious with the total amount of RAM in flux until the end).

    I guess it seems a bit odd to think that would be a contradiction.
     
  18. London-boy

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    Surely it depends what they're going to do with all that memory.
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    Indeed. It's extremely hard to think up any functions that require several gigs, which is why some of us are scratching our heads. 3GBs is necessary for video editing and audio mixing with lots of samples (although even these stream off HDD too) and photoshopping massive photos with lots of layers. It's not needed for running a Netflix app or Twitter window or cross-game chat client. And presently, it's not doing anything as far as we know. It's not there for devs to use. It's not being used by the OS. So early adopters are paying for 8GBs of GDDR5 and getting a quarter of that investment sitting idle. At the very least it could be working as a data cache for games without needing an investment in generating more content.
     
  20. ThePissartist

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    And surely those functions (if they're ever used) don't need to be present while a game is running. I'd bet that 99% of people wouldn't run editing software while a Steam game is in memory on PC.

    I actually checked at the weekend to see whether I'm able to run Netflix and a game simultaneously, turns out I can't. One has to close before the other can start (on PS4). Which just makes the whole thing more baffling.
     
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