BLU-RAY WIN!

[Joe DeFuria]

What "3 versions plus Blue Ray?"

There are only 2 competing HD standards. The fact that a hybrid dual sided disc can be made from either of them is besides the point.

It's not much different from the "widescreen" vs. 4:3 versions of some DVDs today. Early on, there were typically both 4:3 and widescreen versions you could buy separately. In many cases you could get both versions on a double sided DVD. As time goes on, the production of 4:3 formats is going away...

 

[jvd]

That's a plausible scenario... It all remains to be seen how many are in your same situation...

So now instead of 2 versions (SD and HD), we now have 3 versions. Plus BlueRay. Plus UMD. So much for making it easy for consumers...

Well that is the thing . Right now in the dvd generation we have/ had dvd , divx (or whatever that rental dvd thing was ) , superbit , wide screen , standard.

It fractures the consumer base . Now umd is really nothing . Its a joke of a standard anywhere outside of handheld devices . 1.3 gig storage is not enough for a feature length movie at even standard ntsc res let alone hd-tv res .

SD isn't a big deal its basicly a normal dvd. You can just now have the option of buying hd-dvd with sd video also on the disc . This can be only a good thing for consumers as it makes the upgrade path not as painfull

HD well this is what everyone is going to wnat to move to , either hd-dvd or bluray .



As for my case and joe's case . Well i think its alot more commen than you think . I don't know how your set up is but some people have a few tvs and some of the tvs aren't in need of being replaced. So its alot easier to bite the bullet if you can upgrade that living room tv to the new 50 inch hd-tv and get a hd-dvd player for that tv and yet on the same disc still be able to play it on your bed rooms ntsc set . I think it will get alot of use in the first few years as i highly doubt ntsc will be phased out anytime soon .

ALso don't forget we have a dvd player in the car . We are not going to upgrade it to hd-dvd anytime soon (would need the player and a new screen) so that is another area where some people may be happy with both editions on the same disc .

 

[Joe DeFuria]

If the pricing is as jvd outlined, that is the HD and SD versions are cheaper than the hybrid version, people will just buy the lower priced ones. Most households with at least one HDTV will just save money and buy the HD version.

Do you have kids? (I'm guessing no.)

Good luck trying to play the HD versions in my mini-van's DVD player, or in the kids play-room which gets the "left over" electronic components. I'd rather pay a small premium on the DVDs (early on) than force myself to lay out the high cost of the new players.

I'll likely buy ONE new HD player at the "ealy adopter" premium, so that I can enjoy my purchased DVDs at high-def. Then I'll wait for the costs to come down before I buy additional players. In the mean time, I'd like to be able to play the DVDs in whatever place I happen to be.

The only way a hybrid disc makes sense for studios and retailers is if it's the ONLY SKU they make and stock on the shelves.

It also makes LOTS of sense for rental outlets.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Film companies want you to buy the same movie many times, they don't care for your poor sister.
Hardware makers want you to upgrade all your home gear to hd era, they don't care if your poor sister only has VHS and 14" TV.

Hybrid discs... they're the "good cop" of hw makers and film studios.
Single format discs... they're the "bad cop" that kicks you in the nuts and rapes you (or was that the good cop :? )

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Film companies want you to buy the same movie many times, they don't care for your poor sister.
Hardware makers want you to upgrade all your home gear to hd era, they don't care if your poor sister only has VHS and 14" TV.

Yes, but I CARE. And if there some demand for it, film companies can use it to their advantage. Even if they don't give a rat's ass about my kids (why I would like a hybrid), they do care about my money.

 

[jvd]

Film companies want you to buy the same movie many times, they don't care for your poor sister.
Hardware makers want you to upgrade all your home gear to hd era, they don't care if your poor sister only has VHS and 14" TV.

actually they do care . Because if there is a middle of the road case people will adopt that and eventualy move to where the movie companys are at .

Its the same way that sony includes backwards compatability in thier consoles. They want you to be able to buy the hardware and stil lbe able to use the old games in the new hardware to help you offset the cost of the new hardware .

 

[rabidrabbit]

It's a hybrid disc, it's giving you two for the price of one.
Get real people, they might offer you some for a short transition period to lure you in, and on the not-so-big-titles.
But don't expect them to practise that charity for long, or on the big box office titles.

jvd. BR and HDDVD non hybrids were both supposed to offer backwards compatibility from the go... so? They're not going to sell PS2 GT4 Online with the full PS3 GT5 (which as we all already know is just GT4 Online with better graphics and some new cars and tracks) on the same disc, or even on the same package for $50.
They're not even going to sell you a PS2 game that comes with the free PSP version. Everybody would think they're out of their minds if they did!

 

[KnightBreed]

OK, so basically this announcement means nothing and the format war will continue as planned.

1) The press release makes no mention of manufacturing costs. Telling me that Universal accepted the new format really doesn't say dick about increased costs and how they compare to Blu-ray discs.
2) Even with 3 layers, Blu-ray has the capacity edge.
3) Is this a required feature? Is every HD DVD player going to support 3 layers from the get-go? Otherwise, this is useless.
4) Most imporantly, absolutely zero information about writability. Are these discs recordable?

 

[jvd]

but u need foward compatability too . As there will be many units that wont be upgraded .


The biggest thing is that these companys want you to buy the hd-dvd players for hd-dvd content . The fastest way to get wide accemptance is to do these hybrid discs . So that the public at large has the right amount of options to satisfiy themselves . This isn't something that will happen for a year . They want people to be buying hd-dvd movies for years to come most likely another 10 if they have thier way or more . So the first 2 or 3 years they will want to make smooth transition and get as many people into it as possible . They know the players will be expensive and the amount of tvs capable of this res will be few . So the hybrid discs are a perfect middle ground . Those with dvd players can start buying the hybrid versions so that when they upgrade thier whole library isn't outdated . Those that get a hd-dvd player can still use thier discs on the standard dvd players and the companys making these can charge a slight preimum .

Heck depending on costs you may not see a standard hd-dvd for many years . They may all be hybrids . After all the movie companys need to master a hd-dvd verson of the movie and they need to master a dvd version as there will still be millions of dvd users . So there really isn't any more added to the cost than a normaly .

So even if there is just a 5$ premium over dvd or a 10$ (At launch i think 25$ for a hd-dvd / dvd is more than fair ) that will be a huge increase in revenue and more people will buy that disc as it works on both .

 

[wco81]

But how many movies are there that both adults and kids would watch? Outside of some Pixar and Disney movies, not that many. And kids will watch the same crap over and over again. With new packaged formats, DVD prices will probably drop.

And I know a lot of SUVs and minivans get DVD players in the back but it still can't be that large a number. What they're asking for for these mobile video systems is ridiculous. You can buy them PSPs and a few UMD movies and still have money left over.

 

[jvd]

ours was 200$ for a 5 inch lcd monitor and another 100$ for the dvd player . So 300$ only 50$ more than the psp .

 

[wco81]

Well most aftermarket systems are fairly affordable unless you get an Alpine with a motorized, high-density display.

Lexus charges about $2k for a factory-installed 7-inch screen. I think you have to get the Navigation system as well, to get the DVD drive. Another $2k plus.

Of course there's value in the Navigation system. But for $4k or even $2k, you can get a much nicer HDTV display. Not to mention a whole sh*tload of PSPs!

 

[DemoCoder]

Personally, I don't care about the people who want to play their HDDVDs on their existing DVD players in their mini-vans. Backwards compatibility takes a back seat to technical excellence for me, and I don't want my standards watered down because of cheapskates who don't want to upgrade their crappy systems. I paid a premium for my home theater and I want hollywood to cater to my hi-def system.

People who once owned vast casette, 8-track, LP, laserdisc, beta, and VHS had to move on when CD and DVD came out, and those with crappy SD players and TVs will simply have to buy 2 copies, or rip their HD version and burn it on an SD disc.

This backwards compatibility policy is so retarded and shortsighted. In two to three years, HDDVD players from China will sell for $30-50, the price of 1 or 2 DVDs. And regular DVDs will go in the bargin bin $5-9.99. HDDVD should be the standard for the next 10 years, so don't compromise its introduction by layering on unneccessary backwards compatibility. It's like broadcast HDTV. I am not interested in the least of having a single TV signal which "downgrades" to NTSC for older sets like Color does on B&W. I'm interested in the broadcast technology which has the highest bandwidth, best efficiency, and best reception, even if that means older sets can't use it and everything must be broadcast twice.

I own over 800 DVDs now (about 300 bought from China). I will rebuy many of the classics when they come out on HDDVD. And I'll wait to buy HDDVD players for secondary rooms in the house later. If my kids can't watch the newest movie in their own bedroom, tough.

I don't even think it's good parenting anyway to let your kids have their own DVD player in the minivan or their room. Watch TV in the family room and supervise your kids. If they want to watch the newest and greatest HDDVD movie you bought, they'll have to come see it on the main set for a year or two until prices drop, whoop-de-do.

Being able to port a hi-def disc to auxilliary rooms is the least of consumes for HDTV early adopters (pretty much everyone now). I've got $20k sunk into my home theater. I'll pay $9 for a SD DVD copy or RIP and shrink it myself if I have to.

-DC

p.s. Since it was brought up, I think DVD players in the car are moronic, are brain pacifiers for lazy parents. As much as I love video and video games, I think its sad that people have to hook their kid up to a video screen 24/7. When I was a kid, some of the best times I had was socially interacting with my parents and others in the car, instead of fixating on a screen in front of me for the journey. And yes, I AM a parent, and yes, I have to deal with a screaming kid in the car. But the TV, DVD, and Video games, are too easy of a babysitter/pacifier. There are other things your kid can do in the car besides watch the boob-tube. (lets leave aside the stupidity of buying SUVs which are overpriced and unsafe, and paying a premium for internal DVD, but then complaining about buying a few SD discs or extra HD players)

 

[Joe DeFuria]

wco81...you didn't answer my question.

Do you have kids?

 

[DemoCoder]

wco81...you didn't answer my question.

Do you have kids?

I have a kid. I think the question is, how did people raise kids before middleclass parents with too much disposable income and too much self interest decided they could buy TVs and DVD players for their cars, and create another generation of couch potato TV addicts. And these same parents can't see fit to yield the family room TV and HD player to oversea their kids watching movies, and instead install a TV and DVD player (and probably cable/satellite) in their kids room.

When I grew up, I didn't have a TV in my own room, and I was none the worse for wear, nor did I get upset that I had to share the TV with my family.

BTW, people are overlooking the most simple and best solution for "backwards compatibility" Simply sell DVD jewel cases with TWO discs, both an HD version and SD version. Many SD movies today already come with *two* discs, some which widescreen/fullscreen separate discs.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Personally, I don't care about the people who want to play their HDDVDs on their existing DVD players in their mini-vans. Backwards compatibility takes a back seat to technical excellence for me...

I'm sure it does.

I'd wager that "technical excellence" is not what the average consumer is worried about though.

....and I don't want my standards watered down because of cheapskates who don't want to upgrade their crappy systems. I paid a premium for my home theater and I want hollywood to cater to my hi-def system.

So just go out any buy HD systems for all these "cheapskates" who have nothing better to do but spend money on the latest and greatest "tech" as opposed to say, clothes or food. Problem solved.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I have a kid. I think the question is, how did people raise kids before middleclass parents with too much disposable income and too much self interest decided they could buy TVs and DVD players for their cars, and create another generation of couch potato TV addicts.

Good question...the same way people lived without spending inordinate amounts of money on something as useless as entertainment with "higher definition." Creating another generation of "my dick is bigger than yours" ego-centrists.

 

[wco81]

No kids.

And I would probably use DVDs as pacifiers like DemoCoder describes. Not all the time but some of the time.

It wouldn't be the best parenting but it would be the easiest parenting, handy for when you're tired and don't want to deal with over-sugar fed kids.

But like I said, I really doubt the hybrid discs has anything to do with facilitating parenting for HT enthusiasts.

They may not exist beyond press releases. If they come into being, we'll see if their pricing makes sense.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I don't even think it's good parenting anyway to let your kids have their own DVD player in the minivan or their room. Watch TV in the family room and supervise your kids. If they want to watch the newest and greatest HDDVD movie you bought, they'll have to come see it on the main set for a year or two until prices drop, whoop-de-do.

I really can't believe you are trying to turn this into a "good parenting / bad parenting" drama. But if you must know:

1) My wife drives our kids 45-60 minutes EACH WAY to day care in the morning / home in the afternoon. ONE WAY, she allows them to watch a movie (or a recorded TV show via our set-top recorder....and yes, we also record at least 'semi-educational' shows like discovery channel specials, etc.)

2) There are times, you know, when the parents and kids don't want to watch the same thing. So, the TV in the PLAYROOM (not their bedrooms, by the way) which does NOT have a tuner, but does have a DVD player, fits the bill on "movie night". Some times, the kids want to see a movie that we've all seen 5 times already. They can watch it in the play room on their own, and we can choose to watch our own movie (or just put music on) in the family room while we do other stuff.

Being able to port a hi-def disc to auxilliary rooms is the least of consumes for HDTV early adopters (pretty much everyone now). I've got $20k sunk into my home theater.

Gee, I think setting an example to your kid that any kind of electronic entertainment is worth $20 grand...is pretty bad parenting. But that's just me.

p.s. Since it was brought up, I think DVD players in the car are moronic, are brain pacifiers for lazy parents.

P.S. you know NOTHING of how we use the DVD player in our van, or how we use TV in our hosehold, so you can STFU.

 

[PC-Engine]

Better to have that easy upgrade path than nothing at all (BR).

And just like that, you dismiss the point from just a few posts up.

And you dismiss the costs involved for Blu-ray hybrid disc.