BLU-RAY WIN!

[DemoCoder]

My home theater is for me, not my kids. It is my hobby, not theirs. I don't run around hyping my theater's specs as if to brag. I appreciate a good sound system, high quality video, and big screen. And I am willing to pay a premium for HD content for my system. If my kids want to watch TV, it will be with my approval and supervision, atleast until they are much older.


On the other hand, installing TVs into your car is, I'm sorry, stupid. There are better ways to entertain your kids, and I'm sure it's not a recommended solution by the American Pediatrics Association. Moreover, video screens in cars have caused accidents on highways because of other people staring into your car. So I'm sure the highway patrol doesn't like it either. But go ahead, tranquilize your kids with the boob-tube, instead of giving them toys, books, or talking with them.


When you become a parent, you sacrifice a part of your life for your kids. It means you can no longer live the life you used to, with all the free time you had for yourself. TV BabySitting is not a good way to pacify kids and gain back peace of mind.

 

[DemoCoder]

1) My wife drives our kids 45-60 minutes EACH WAY to day care in the morning / home in the afternoon. ONE WAY, she allows them to watch a movie (or a recorded TV show via our set-top recorder....and yes, we also record at least 'semi-educational' shows like discovery channel specials, etc.)

How do the vast majority of human beings on this earth, many of whom have long commutes, accomplish such a feat, without having a TV in a car? I remember when I was a kid, I used to have to be driven 30 minutes to school each way, and I either talked to my mom, slept, or read a book.

In any case, on the hybrid DVD route, I think it is cheaper and easy to simply press two DVDs and package them in one jewel case. You have the added advantage that your kids have their OWN COPY of the SD version. And don't tell me movie companies won't like it. I have dozens of hollywood movies that come with two discs each having a *full version* of the movie. This was back in the days before they started selling separate "fullscreen" and "widescreen" boxes. But many "special edition" DVD sets still offer multiple discs.

If anyone wants to buy a set that has SD/HD together, I'm sure it would be a marginal premium. There's just no reason to complicate the BD medium with some hybrid scheme. I'd rather use the extra leverage to up the number of layers and store more data.

 

[Qroach]

This topic has strayed very far from games. Shouldn't this be in the hardware forum?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

My home theater is for me, not my kids.

Your kids learn from example.

You put so much emphasis (quantity of titles, expense of electronics...how often you upgrade and tinker with it...)

What exactly do you think they are learning from your behavior toward this "hobby?"

It is my hobby, not theirs.

How you treat your wife (and how she treats you) is also "your relationship" and not theirs.

Do you think your kid won't learn from observing the relationship between you and your spouse?

I don't run around hyping my theater's specs as if to brag.

Doesn't matter.

On the other hand, installing TVs into your car is, I'm sorry, stupid.

Spending $20K on pretty pictures is, I'm sorry, stupid.

There are better ways to entertain your kids...

There are better things to spend your money on.

Moreover, video screens in cars have caused accidents on highways because of other people staring into your car....

I can't believe you are arguing this...

So I'm sure the highway patrol doesn't like it either. But go ahead, tranquilize your kids with the boob-tube...

Worst case scenario...they develop a high affinity for digital entertainment, and maybe they'll obsess to the point of acquiring 900+ titles, and sinking $20K into an entertainment system sometime down the road...

instead of giving them toys, books, or talking with them.

Which we do all the time, and what they get in day-care.

Or is 30-35 mins of TV a day "too much"?

When you become a parent, you sacrifice a part of your life for your kids.

Thanks for the tip. Don't let it stop you from sacrificing your precisious "20K" entertainment system habits though.

It means you can no longer live the life you used to, with all the free time you had for yourself.

You don't say?

TV BabySitting is not a good way to pacify kids and gain back peace of mind.

Agreed. Now all you have to so is tell that to someone who's using TV to baby sit....

 

[Joe DeFuria]

This topic has strayed very far from games. Shouldn't this be in the hardware forum?

More like the political forum at this point.

 

[DemoCoder]

What exactly do you think they are learning from your behavior toward this "hobby?"

If anything, how to tinker with, design, and build things.

Spending $20K on pretty pictures is, I'm sorry, stupid.

Chump-change to me. You may think it is stupid economically, but my point is, DVD players in the car isn't an economic stupidity, its potentially a child development issue. Of course, many people spend $20k extra on their SUVs (not mini-vans) believing they are safer, and end up with a gas-guzzling monster that is more likely to kill their kids than to save them.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

How do the vast majority of human beings on this earth, many of whom have long commutes, accomplish such a feat, without having a TV in a car?

Without any better or worse results.

How do the vast majority of human beings on this earth, many of whom used to just "read" or "talk to their spouses" in their free time, actually survive without $20K worth of "mind numbing" TV equipment...

I remember when I was a kid, I used to have to be driven 30 minutes to school each way, and I either talked to my mom, slept, or read a book.

Sorry, my 2 and 4 year olds haven't quite grasped reading yet. All THREE of them talk to one another...even during movies. (Does your kid talk yet? Ever watch a movie with a toddler?), and neither of them sleep because they don't need it.

 

[wco81]

Do you really ant to hand over the only disc you have of a particular move to the kids?

And expect to watch the HDTV version after they've handled it for awhile?

Anyone remember that old TV commercial where an infant is playing around a VCR? The father tries to eject a tape and oat meal came out of the tape slot.

 

[DemoCoder]

Another reason why having a separate SD copy is better.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Chump-change to me.

So, $20K and inordinate amounts of time dedicated to this "self serving hobby" is a much better lesson for your kid than say, using that same energy and money for donating to others? You're just "sending a message" now to our kid that $20K should be treated as "chump change."

You are at best an irresponsible parent, at worst...downright evil. (Is my point getting through yet? In case it isn't, the above is sarcastic. )

You may think it is stupid economically, but my point is, DVD players in the car isn't an economic stupidity, its potentially a child development issue.

Of course. ANYTHING is potentially a child development issue. It's all about BALANCE IMO.

SOME TV is just fine.

Our kids get ZERO TV during the week except on the way home from day-care. They get one "movie night" on Friday night, and one movie night on Sunday night. Other than that...it's other stuff.We read to / with our kids every single night before bed, and our kids are getting plenty of exercise, "lessons", etc at pre-school / day care during the week, and with us on the weekends.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Do you really ant to hand over the only disc you have of a particular move to the kids?

And expect to watch the HDTV version after they've handled it for awhile?

Not exactly...which is why I copy my bought DVDs, save the originals, and use the copies for kid viewing.

 

[DemoCoder]

My advice, not to worry about HD only discs. BD-ROMs will be available, and someone WILL crack the format. So you'll be able to burn SD copies for yourself just like some people make VCDs or DVD Shrink to burn lower quality versions of their DVDs.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

My advice, not to worry about HD only discs.

I'm not "worried" about HD only discs. It doesn't make all THAT much difference to me either way.

I'm only saying that I would prefer hybrid discs until such time that my entire household is HD capable, and I believe many people would feel the same way. (In other words, I do see legitimate demand for them.)

And believe it or not, my preference doesn't make me "cheap" or even a "bad parent" for that matter...

 

[Qroach]

More like the political forum at this point.

Aye, and how...

 

[wco81]

My advice, not to worry about HD only discs. BD-ROMs will be available, and someone WILL crack the format. So you'll be able to burn SD copies for yourself just like some people make VCDs or DVD Shrink to burn lower quality versions of their DVDs.

It sounds like even if the keys are compromised, as they were with CSS, they will have a way to update new keys. Studios want players to have connectivity of some kind.

For software players on computers, they will definitely require reauthorizations of some kind on an ongoing basis.

Never say never but it sounds like the same kind of DeCSS feat isn't likely to reoccur. Or if it does, they have some means of changing the encryption of playback devices already out in the field.

 

[KnightBreed]

DemoCoder pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Everybody slugged off the 4 layer Blu-ray discs as vapourware. Until we get confirmation that (A) every player requires 3 layer read-only support and (B) every recorder supports writing to 3 layers, I'm treating the HD DVD press releases as hype.

By the way, "upgrade paths" for the disc replicators isn't even remotely on the radar of things I should worry about. I want a format that isn't hamstringed by the lowest common denominator, especially when the lowest common denominator won't even buy into the format until the players are available for $50 at Wal-mart. Next generation optical media is worthy of a proper technological leap.

 

[Ty]

As a consumer I'd love to buy a single $15 movie and have it work in my current DVD player and my future HD-DVD/BR player as well. Heck, I wish Windows worked that way. But can someone tell me WHY movie studios would do this?

Anyhow as BR can do this as well I don't see this as a win (at least not yet) for HD-DVD.

I think we can all agree that a hybrid disc, BR or otherwise is cool for consumers but will studios actually publish it? That I dunno.

 

[aaaaa00]

HD-DVD loses its cost advantage when it goes past the first layer. Moreover, someone claimed that if they have to go beyond single layers, the replicators would have to get new lines, not just upgrade existing DVD lines.

Dual layer HD DVD currently costs a fraction of what even single layer BD costs.

The disc duplicators have yet to figure out how to make a single layer BD disc reliably, let alone a dual layer. And forget about the quad or eight layer BD pipe-dreams.

 

[jvd]

As a consumer I'd love to buy a single $15 movie and have it work in my current DVD player and my future HD-DVD/BR player as well. Heck, I wish Windows worked that way. But can someone tell me WHY movie studios would do this?

They wouldn't at 15$ but they would at a higher price point like 20-25$ and it will sell and they will do it for that reason because it will sell and they will get ap rice preimum on the discs .

 

[aaaaa00]

The EETimes article went up a couple hours ago.

http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=163100700

HD DVD-ROM going to 45-Gbyte capacity

Yoshiko Hara
EE Times
(05/10/2005 3:12 PM EDT)

TOKYO — Toshiba Corp. has developed a triple-layer HD DVD-ROM (read-only) disc with a 45-Gbyte data capacity, making it more competitive with the 50-Gbyte capacity achievable by the Blu-ray Disc format.

Demonstrated Tuesday at the HD DVD workshop at Media Tech 2005 in Las Vegas, the high-capacity DVD-ROM disc answers critics who contended the 30 Gbyte capacity of existing HD DVD-ROM discs puts its at a major disadvantage compared to the Blu-ray format.

Much of the recent talk surrounding both the HD DVD and Blu-ray formats has centered around a unified disc standard. But for the moment both formats remain competitors, leaving OEMs with more decisions in designing next-generation audio/video products.

The HD DVD camp may have scored a minor victory in the battle, as Warner Home Video and Universal Studios immediately endorsed the triple disc format.

Toshiba also announced a new hybrid format, double sided, dual layer HD DVD ROM disc with 30 Gbytes on one side and 8.5 Gbytes on the other side. Warner said that 77 percent of consumers surveyed are interested in purchasing the hybrid HD DVD products.

With the introduction of new discs, the HD DVD-ROM will be available as a 15-Gbyte single layer, single sided disc; 30-Gbyte dual layer, single sided disc; the 45-Gbyte triple layer disc; and the 30-Gbyte/8.5-Gbyte hybrid disc.

Toshiba emphasized that the triple layered disc does not sacrifice the high productivity of the HD DVD-ROM format. Memory-Tech Corp., a major disc replicator in Japan that supports the HD DVD format, has confirmed the new 45GB disc can be produced on their existing manufacturing lines for HD DVD discs with only minimal additional investment and production cost per disc.

Shiroharu Kawasaki, president and chief executive of Memory-Tech, said, "We have already started verification for volume production of triple layer discs, and we are confident of early verification as they are based on the 0.6-mm disc structure and established production technologies."

The triple layer disc is produced by bonding two 0.6-mm platters, the same as DVD disc production. The first recording layer of both platters is formed by injection, a widely used technique to produce ROM discs. For the dual layer platter, ultraviolet sensitive resin is coated on the first layer.

In the DVD family discs, so-called DVD-14 and DVD-18 have dual-layers on one side, and are used in limited applications, according to a Toshiba spokeswoman.