Black XB360 120 Gig HDD + HDMI = $479

[Carl B]

Agreed on both. IF Toshiba bites the bullet and offers their hd-dvd drives as a sacrifice to BillyG I think this thing could do rather well. If not, they are heading in the wrong direction - IMO

They (Toshiba) already are - it's called the HD DVD add-on.

And I think that's as far as Microsoft is willing to risk tying the XBox brand to that format. Afterall if (when?) HD DVD succumbs, it's one thing to have an accessory that plays an obsolescent format, and it's another entirely - psychologically speaking - to have your 'Elite' console stuck with such. Not only that, but if MS truly does want to run this SKU into infinity, it would mean needing to support HD DVD inclusion even after the format stagnates; either that or an embarrasing internal component shift to Blu-ray instead, and how would early adopters of the Elite feel about that?

 

[22psi]

I agree that Sony should* empahisize the 20GB model, but making it the main SKU or not does not make the PS3 $499... it's already $499 because this is a model you can buy afterall, emphasized or not.

Except that you can't buy a 20GB PS3, it's virtually non-existent in stores. The ave PS3 selling prices in Jan and Feb NPD was near 599.xx, meaning 20GB is nowhere to be found. Also you cannot get a 20GB PS3 in Europe as well as it's not available there. No idea about Japan but I would surmise the same situation as in the US. That's why I think Sony should reconsider and produce this as the main SKU. True it's technically not really dropping the price of the PS3; however if the 499 SKU was abundantly available/main SKU in the minds of consumers it would be the "real" price of a PS3. Just ask 360 owners what is the real price of a 360? Most people would likely say 399 as that is the main SKU.

 

[TheChefO]

...I think this is part of the point. When you have Sony touting PS3 as a premium brand, with all the latest technology and options, a price drop on the Premium on Core units, still relatively close for Sony's release, will partly validate Sony's messaging and assist in positioning 360 as a less technically capable solution. By releasing the Elite unit the pricing of the lesser units can become more elastic and stretch further down, while the Elite is still priced to position it still as "premium technology". In essence I think they are ultimately aiming to stretch down towards Wii pricing with the core but also going after the PS3's premium position with the Elite...

I disagree.

Dave, I see what you're saying here in not wanting to lend credence to the "premium tech" offered by ps3 in comparison but at the same time there is a very distinct advantage for the av market that ps3 does offer. For this crowd that "appreciates" HDMI and black components, they also are interested in hd-movie formats.

If the offering's are the same price, why would this consumer not choose the ps3? Even if BR fails (unlikely given the current circumstance) they essentially have this device for free. Where on xb360 they would have to add hd-disc functionality for additional cost (or buy a seperate unit which is likely for this crowd as well).

IMO all this model does is lend credence to the credability to the ps3 price point where they could drop the price of xb360 to the $200-300 range and make a mockery of the existing ps3 price structure. Sure this device doesn't prohibit such a move from happening, but seeing a xbox on the shelf with a price that nearly matches the ps3 does not help consumers seperate the devices in mindshare.

xbd - I understand your point on profitability and for a limited run perhaps this will help them makea quick buck. Personally I still think It's a wrong move but it would certainly help them achieve this goal.

Then again, software sales and online sales of a $200 xb360 hitting mass market could also help them achieve this goal and longterm goals as well ...

IMO

 

[TheChefO]

They (Toshiba) already are - it's called the HD DVD add-on.

And I think that's as far as Microsoft is willing to risk tying the XBox brand to that format. Afterall if (when?) HD DVD succumbs, it's one thing to have an accessory that plays an obsolescent format, and it's another entirely - psychologically speaking - to have your 'Elite' console stuck with such. Not only that, but if MS truly does want to run this SKU into infinity, it would mean needing to support HD DVD inclusion even after the format stagnates; either that or an embarrasing internal component shift to Blu-ray instead, and how would early adopters of the Elite feel about that?

The value of the components included would be "ok" and shouldn't make that buyer feel buyers remorse but more importantly, I disagree with the conclusion.

I think the inclusion of hd-dvd (at little to no cost to MS) would establish the medium and help sales just as much as the inclusion of BR in ps3 is helping BR movie sales. In fact, with xb sales significantly outpacing ps3 sales currently, one could make the case for this move establishing HD-DVD as the HD optical standard and forcing the hand of the movie studios in play to support the widelay available format.

The ball is in Toshiba's court and how they want to play it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Even without a next-gen DVD format it costs you to $479 to have an HDMI equipped Xbox360 with 120GB HDD ...

The question is how many people really want a 120gb and HDMI. We'll have to see, but my guess is that the premium continues to sell 80% of the 360's sold.

 

[Carl B]

Except that you can't buy a 20GB PS3, it's virtually non-existent in stores. The ave PS3 selling prices in Jan and Feb NPD was near 599.xx, meaning 20GB is nowhere to be found. Also you cannot get a 20GB PS3 in Europe as well as it's not available there. No idea about Japan but I would surmise the same situation as in the US. That's why I think Sony should reconsider and produce this as the main SKU. True it's technically not really dropping the price of the PS3; however if the 499 SKU was abundantly available/main SKU in the minds of consumers it would be the "real" price of a PS3. Just ask 360 owners what is the real price of a 360? Most people would likely say 399 as that is the main SKU.

True enough 22psi, true enough.

I guess I'm just a little more nuimb to it since I myself have the 20GB version (well, 120GB actually...)

The value of the components included would be "ok" and shouldn't make that buyer feel buyers remorse but more importantly, I disagree with the conclusion.

I think the inclusion of hd-dvd (at little to no cost to MS) would establish the medium and help sales just as much as the inclusion of BR in ps3 is helping BR movie sales. In fact, with xb sales significantly outpacing ps3 sales currently, one could make the case for this move establishing HD-DVD as the HD optical standard and forcing the hand of the movie studios in play to support the widelay available format.

The ball is in Toshiba's court and how they want to play it.

I think you're extremely optimistic of Toshiba's generosity if you believe that Toshiba would just give out HD drives for free to MS. I suspect that the HD DVD add-on is provided either at cost or indeed subsidized to an extent, but building an entire retail SKU around it is on a whole 'nother level of commitment. Again, it's just too risky a move for MS both from a PR standpoint, component cost standpoint, and consumer perception standpoint going forward. The boat on HD DVD inclusion in 360 has sailed, I wouldn't give it much thought anymore. It's definitely not going to happen before April 29th, I'll tell ya that.

 

[archangelmorph]

The question is how many people really want a 120gb and HDMI. We'll have to see, but my guess is that the premium continues to sell 80% of the 360's sold.

Agreed!

A fact i'm sure MS were all the more aware of too..

Which makes it all the more bizarre that they would go ahead and release this SKU which seems to be doing more damage to the cost vs value [of Xbox360 compared to the PS3] than good..

Potentially this could seriously damage the consumer mindshare unless either the price is dropped or other drastic measures are taken.. If not then it could very sell in the bucketloads but I presonally fail to see where the market for such a product (that would choose this over the alternatives on offer..) could actually be..

 

[Arwin]

Except that you can't buy a 20GB PS3, it's virtually non-existent in stores. The ave PS3 selling prices in Jan and Feb NPD was near 599.xx, meaning 20GB is nowhere to be found.

That's because the demand for the 60GB version has been about 4:1, and retailers have been ordering them in that ratio. This makes a lot of sense too, because early adopters price is less of an issue and they are likely to want the most complete version. However, demand for the cheaper sku will grow as the console becomes more mainstream. So I think it is important for retailers to recognise (and for Sony to help them) that the 20GB version is likely to become more popular eventually.

Also you cannot get a 20GB PS3 in Europe as well as it's not available there.

Here retailers have been even more vocal about expecting and preferring (easier to manage) to only sell the 60GB version initially. The 20GB version will come a few months later.

No idea about Japan but I would surmise the same situation as in the US.

In Japan you have the 20GB version, and it has been made an additional $50 cheaper, AFAIR. But I think even here initially the 60GB version has been selling better.

 

[Carl B]

Potentially this could seriously damage the consumer mindshare unless either the price is dropped or other drastic measures are taken.. If not then it could very sell in the bucketloads but I presonally fail to see where the market for such a product (that would choose this over the alternatives on offer..) could actually be..

I think this whole thing will have minimal negative mindshare impact for MS; the fact is, it's only negative when viewed through the lense of folk who were otherwise expecting a price cut rather than this. The mindshare will do just fine this year with Halo 3 and other heavy-hitters, no worries there believe me. MS saw what happened with XBox when they released Halo 2 and probably feels comfortable with their current pricing feeling that consumers who want the game will pay for a 360 whatever the price; only when these growth drivers have begun to die down will they likely consider price cuts as necessary to generate new interest.

 

[scooby_dooby]

And all they got was a 10,000,000 console head start

Shit...all I got was this lousy T-shirt

 

[TheChefO]

I think you're extremely optimistic of Toshiba's generosity if you believe that Toshiba would just give out HD drives for free to MS. I suspect that the HD DVD add-on is provided either at cost or indeed subsidized to an extent, but building an entire retail SKU around it is on a whole 'nother level of commitment. Again, it's just too risky a move for MS both from a PR standpoint, component cost standpoint, and consumer perception standpoint going forward. The boat on HD DVD inclusion in 360 has sailed, I wouldn't give it much thought anymore. It's definitely not going to happen before April 29th, I'll tell ya that.

Well, put yourself in Toshiba's shoes. How would you play it?

It seems that without such a move, HD-DVD will be done, it's only a matter of time with ps3 owners buying BR movies enough to impact the market currently and the trend is growing. Sure they are attempting to hit the $300 sweet spot with their stand alone player but it may not pick up as much steam as they would like. From what I understand, Toshiba has been subsidizing their own HD-DVD players to the tune of ~$100/unit. I have no idea how much the drive itself costs but like all things tech, prices come down.

Like I said, it really is up to Toshiba and how much this market is worth to them. I agree MS would not break the bank to accomplish this goal but they would certainly entertain offers in this regard.

IMO

 

[Carl B]

That's because the demand for the 60GB version has been about 4:1, and retailers have been ordering them in that ratio. This makes a lot of sense too, because early adopters price is less of an issue and they are likely to want the most complete version. However, demand for the cheaper sku will grow as the console becomes more mainstream. So I think it is important for retailers to recognise (and for Sony to help them) that the 20GB version is likely to become more popular eventually.

Well, I personally don't believe all this retailer/consumer demand stuff to be honest. Truth is, there are people actively hunting for the 20GB version out there when there are 60GB's aplenty. I'm all for a single SKU and understand whhy if retailer and Sony both want it... the 60GB would be "it." But let's not say that the 20GB is constrained due to low consumer demand, because that doesn't jive with what I read on the Internet and what happens to stocks everytime Amazon has them available.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The only reason to get a 120 gig hard drive is to pay and download content from xbox live.

Lol, ya this is what gets me as well. MS asks us to pay a 100% premium on a HDD, for the sole purpose that we can purchase content from them?? Umm..ya, don't hold your breath there! (sure there are other applications that Dave mentions, pics, music, holding 68 demo's at a time, but really it's so you can buy TV content)

I think the reason everyone looks at this SKU so badly is not because it's a bad value, for $80 more you really do get alot, the problem is a pricedrop was expected, not a price increase so it comes of as a very puzzling/stupid move.

 

[infinity4]

Xbox 360 Elite??? ppppppppfffffff, elite in breakdown and noise level yeah

 

[Todd33]

The Elite is a nice unit and I'd gladly buy it if they let me trade in my current unit for $400. I like the Black color and larger HD (though if you don't DL movies and TV what is its use?). HDMI is also nice, but will anything use the advanced audio?

Anyhow, it's kind of everything I wanted from the original 360, it's too bad they waited ~15 months.

It also strikes me odd that MS downplayed things like 1080P and HDMI and have now adopted them.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

In Japan you have the 20GB version, and it has been made an additional $50 cheaper, AFAIR. But I think even here initially the 60GB version has been selling better.

The official price in Japan in Euros is about 320e for the 20GB model and about 380e for the 60GB model, but I'm under the impression that you can get the 60GB model for 350e in some places. So it's actually the other way around. 60GB is much better deal in japan compared to Western countries.

Onto another topic...
I still don't understand how so many people across the internet see this new X360 as a bad thing, It's meant for the people that actually need/want's something like that instead of being some sort of "tool of destruction" against the competition. There is a place for it. Price cuts would make the whole lineup more appealing, but this also broadens the audience a bit.

 

[Carl B]

Like I said, it really is up to Toshiba and how much this market is worth to them.

You're looking to the future for an answer that's already been given, and that answer is... not worth enough to have gotten an integrated drive into the 360. The SKU has been announced; it lacks HD DVD, and with a launch date of April 29th it's likely already in mass production - what could possibly change at this point? A fourth SKU?

 

[TheChefO]

Lol, ya this is what gets me as well. MS asks us to pay a 100% premium on a HDD, for the sole purpose that we can purchase content from them?? Umm..ya, don't hold your breath there!

I think the reason everyone looks at this SKU so badly is not because it's a bad value, for $80 more you really do get alot, the problem is a pricedrop was expected, not a price increase so it comes of as a very puzzling/stupid move.

QFT

If MS plays this pricing game lazy, they will (deservingly IMO) lose marketshare. The current pricing strategy seems to be: "play it not to lose" instead of: "play it to win".

Perhaps they still have the FTC looking over their shoulder!

 

[TheChefO]

You're looking to the future for an answer that's already been given, and that answer is... not worth enough to have gotten an integrated drive into the 360. The SKU has been announced; it lacks HD DVD, and with a launch date of April 29th it's likely already in mass production - what could possibly change at this point? A fourth SKU?

It's official?

I missed that ... Thanks for the clarification xbd. I guess that answers the: "How much is the market worth to Toshiba?" question then!

Bad move IMO.

 

[quest55720]

The official price in Japan in Euros is about 320e for the 20GB model and about 380e for the 60GB model, but I'm under the impression that you can get the 60GB model for 350e in some places. So it's actually the other way around. 60GB is much better deal in japan compared to Western countries.

Onto another topic...
I still don't understand how so many people across the internet see this new X360 as a bad thing, It's meant for the people that actually need/want's something like that instead of being some sort of "tool of destruction" against the competition. There is a place for it. Price cuts would make the whole lineup more appealing, but this also broadens the audience a bit.

The reason I see it as a bad thing is price plain and simple. The same reason I have viewed the PS3 as bad price price and price. If these way over priced machines sell it just sets a president for even higher prices next generation. MS could of atleast included WIfi, charge pack and lube for people who bend over for this new SKU.

2007 is MS shot to cement the NA market and they most likely pissed it away today. I see no price cuts coming any more unless sony does. No way to lower the price when you just launched a new SKU. By the time MS wises up they will face the monster 2008 PS3 lineup and price cut.