Black XB360 120 Gig HDD + HDMI = $479

[TheChefO]

MS rushed the hardware, Sony rushed the software. Which one is easier to patch?

Actually the most difficult thing to patch is userbase and mindshare. If MS didn't rush to market and took their time to implement HDMI and waited for better quality and more abundant gddr3 ram they would have had less hardware failures and a slightly more capable system, but at the sacrific of how many millions of consoles sold and how many less games sold which would lead to how many less devs coding for the system in the first place ... domino effect. I think they did the right thing, though I would have liked to see a 1yr warranty from day one given the price.

 

[Sis]

Yes, that's what a SKU is.

Again, I was not talking about a system, I said SKU. Accessories like the HD-DVD, Elite, 120GB, etc. exist to fill the short sightedness of MS. This also goes for adding 1080P after making fun of Sony for a year.

Sorry about that--I was assuming the common use of SKU when referring to the console itself.

I compared them, I never said they were equivalent. Don't take such discussions so personally, they are game systems, chill out.

I only take it personal when I take the time to write something down in response to someone and they brush it away by throwing out "fanboy, biased, or zealot", which you haven't done. Besides, I think flabbergasted is a funny word and I've been trying to work it into a post here since I joined. I plan on using it much more often than it warrants which should be flabbergasting in and of itself.

MS rushed the hardware, Sony rushed the software. Which one is easier to patch? notice Sony doesn't need new SKUs (not systems) to add things like Home while MS needs SKUs which take shelf space and confuse customers?

I'm not saying MS screwed up more, but this was a thread about the 360, why you guys love to bash the PS3 as a replacement for real discussion is beyond me.

Fair enough; I disagree with you about launching too early or rushed, but I can at least see your reasoning.

 

[Crossbar]

It seems like Microsoft is getting a fair share of bashing because of the Elite SKU by the hardcore gamers.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5116&Itemid=2

I think that an inclusion of an HD-DVD drive would have made a lot of difference, but it would probably have driven the price to high, so it probably wasn´t an option.

 

[quest55720]

It's actually a good question.

Why would they pack the premium in with only a measly 20 gig hard drive (less if you count the reserved space)?

I can think of a few:

1) Perhaps they got a deal on 20 gig drives?

Or

2) They were unsure of to what extent HD downloads would take off. This would include number of consumers downloading as well as number of downloads per user. If the first number is small, then 20 gig makes sense. If the first number is large, yet the second number is small, 20 gig still makes sense. If the first number is large and the second number is large, then they woefully underestimated how successful they would be. That's always a good position to be in.

Or

3) They decide to intentionally ship a drive that they knew full well won't work for consumers, thus forcing the masses to buy the bigger drive. (I have my own prediction about that $180 add-on drive--It will sell worse than the HD DVD add-on.)

I would say #2 is the answer. I am sure if they felt paid media downloads were going to explode they would of included a larger hard drive for users to download to. I also think that is the reason for the stupid 179 dollar price of the 120gig drive. If MS truely believed in the download model right now the drives would be much cheaper to get people to purchase them. Since the only real reason to get the 120gig drive is paid media downloads from xbox live.

The only reason I dislike the elite is price plain and simple. If the would of anounced price cuts of the core and premium and introduced the elite at 399-429 range I would be much happier with it.

I do wonder how many will be pissed off when they pay the 80 extra bucks just for hdmi when the other SKUs get HDMI some time later this year?

 

[Rangers]

I would say #2 is the answer. I am sure if they felt paid media downloads were going to explode they would of included a larger hard drive for users to download to. I also think that is the reason for the stupid 179 dollar price of the 120gig drive. If MS truely believed in the download model right now the drives would be much cheaper to get people to purchase them. Since the only real reason to get the 120gig drive is paid media downloads from xbox live.

The only reason I dislike the elite is price plain and simple. If the would of anounced price cuts of the core and premium and introduced the elite at 399-429 range I would be much happier with it.

I do wonder how many will be pissed off when they pay the 80 extra bucks just for hdmi when the other SKUs get HDMI some time later this year?

I'm not sure the $179 price isn't due more than we think to cost.

A MS guy talked about that on Major Nelson, the 360 drives have to have high standards for reliability, stability, etc, it is self powered, and a bunch of other things. MS has to do finish work on the drives after they get them from the manufactorer, which adds an extra cost step. Couple that with the already high price of bare 2.5" drives (people often make the mistake of comparing to 3.5", though not here so much I'm sure). I'm sure there's some profit taking there, but maybe not so much as we think.

If Sony would release a branded HDD (which I've alwaysd thought they really should) we'll see if they undercut.

BTW, 20 GB drive is fully workable, really. Just requires a bit of managing. MS wants people to go to the download content when you need it model, which isn't an entirely meritless idea. Honestly, if you want to store everything you ever do on the HDD forever, no amount of GB is going to hold you. The only "permant" storage solution would be to allow you to burn DVD-Rs of your content or something.

 

[archie4oz]

I'm not so sure about the guaranteed reliability part (at least as far as costs go). But the firmware changes for security and such, can definitely be a cost reduction inhibitor. Apple does the same thing with the HDDs bundled in w/their systems (e.g. guarantees that the drive properly obeys commands to flush writes to the disk when requested (not all drives behave the same (especially external ones)).

 

[Mintmaster]

Accessories like the HD-DVD, Elite, 120GB, etc. exist to fill the short sightedness of MS.

Don't be an idiot. They exist for MS to sell as many consoles as possible while making as much money as possible. If anything, their choices are all about the future. Lack of a standard HDD is about bringing the 360's cost down to $200 and even $100. HD-DVD isn't standard because in the future nobody will use their game system as a HD-DVD/BluRay player. It's just there if XB360 users decide to add it, not to sell the system. Even MS's vision about downloading (i.e. central storage) vs. local storage is about the future. Now 120GB is just there to take advantage of PS3's own marketing and branding.

This also goes for adding 1080P after making fun of Sony for a year.

Are you serious? Sony was the one saying only 1080p is real HD and saying the 360 isn't next gen because it's only 720p. MS was doing damage control, not making fun of Sony.

 

[inefficient]

Don't be an idiot. They exist for MS to sell as many consoles as possible while making as much money as possible. If anything, their choices are all about the future. Lack of a standard HDD is about bringing the 360's cost down to $200 and even $100.

By the time the X360 is able to drop to $100, nand flash solutions should be able to replace the HDD in the PS3 for cheap storage.

In 2006 cost per GB for Flash memory fell by more than 60%. It is expected to keep falling at a high rate. This means that if the trend continues as expected, in 2010 the cost of a 20GB flash would be only $5.4 USD.

Sony's decision to make HDD standard this generation was made under totally different circumstances than MS's decision for the xbox1. It's not apples to apples. The cost of the HDD is not nessasarily going to hold up the price in the long run. Sony, being one of the largest electronics manufacturer is in a very good position to gauge the weather on these sorts of trends. Their decisions are not made in a vaccum.

Source: http://mmislueck.com/WhatsNews.htm

Flash-memory technology is expected to follow its own "Moore's Law" over the next several years, with average cost per gigabyte continuing to decline annually by not less than 40 percent, and possibly by as much as 60 percent in some years, just as has happened in 2006

 

[StefanS]

This thread has outlived itself. All the arguments have been made. All that's left now is either emotions or off-topic discussions.