AMD Vega Hardware Reviews

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by ArkeoTP, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. Infinisearch

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    USA
    No offense but what are you talking about? Its two separate parts of the pipeline.
    And how would a driver detect it when the API has no construct to relay intent?
    edit - also if as an application programmer I go out of my way to sort my draws front to back and/or screen space bin them for better cache utilization, are you gonna get more performance by doing things out of order? Also again if the driver does potentially do this how does it know it's safe for correct rendering? how does it know it will be a perf gain and not a loss? A per app profile might help somewhat but thats a far cry from a driver automatically detecting and choosing to go out of order.
    Care to share a link?
     
    #1741 Infinisearch, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  2. Anarchist4000

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    359
    What I recall was whitelisting specific apps for certain optimizations. So some unsafe or more aggressive optimizations are likely occurring. That GPUOpen blog would be the safe answer.

    The pipeline is being implemented as giant monolithic shaders. Primitive shaders already replacing several parts of the pipeline to better share or omit certain calculations. This would be inlining calculations to reuse the data.

    For certain types of culling, it may be advantageous to do a coarse rasterization pass or feed back results from rasterization to facilitate culling and binning. Z culling is normally fragments, but it could apply to triangles or portions of them at a coarse level. If binning in screen space a primitive could cross tiles. The binning process should collect and reorder geometry prior to pushing it through the normal pipeline. Not binning fragments.

    By application name, code injection, driver bug, or analyzing the shaders. Drivers are great at breaking guarantees for performance. Much of this is likely already happening behind the scenes.

    http://nhaehnle.blogspot.com/2017/09/radeonsi-out-of-order-rasterization-on.html

    It was something tied to that. Phoronix comment I think.
     
  3. Infinisearch

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    139
    Location:
    USA
    Primitive shaders handle up to and including primitive assembly, DSBR handles where that leaves off up to pixel shaders. They are two distinct sections.
    You can't break a guarantee that is for rendering correctness. And why would you think out of order rasterization would automatically be a win? Code injection yet again doesn't can't convey intent, how is a driver bug going to detect anything, and finally how is analyzing shaders going to do anything? It has nothing to do with intent of submission order.
    Thanks I'll take a look to see what its about.
     
  4. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    2,172
    Location:
    La-la land
    Meh. Two months and counting now beyond the date stated by AMD for 3rd-party Vegas, with no word on what's going on.

    #unhappycamper
     
  5. entity279

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    422
    Location:
    Romania
    #myVegaLiquidEditionComesThisWeekButIvePayedAFortuneToSillyBundles

    But I'm pretty sure I'll be happy when it's here nonetheless. Got a fluid experience temporarly with Rx580 anyway
     
  6. Anarchist4000

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    359
    Same issue as the hull and domain shaders though. Information from one is useful to the other. The entire pipeline really needs to be programmable. Much of the setup and culling information could be highly relevant for binning. Same idea as deferring attribute interpolation.

    Breaking a guarantee is easy, just don't enforce it. While it won't necessarily increase performance, it shouldn't hurt it. Driver bugs exist because some specification likely wasn't enforced or the driver tries to assume intent. That assumption is the problem. Shaders can be analyzed for dependencies. So long as they aren't dependent on values being overwritten it can be inferred order doesn't matter.
     
  7. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    2,172
    Location:
    La-la land
    Kej, Lightman and digitalwanderer like this.
  8. monstercameron

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    101
    Grall and Lightman like this.
  9. Kyyla

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    289
    Location:
    Finland
    Alexko, BRiT, Grall and 2 others like this.
  10. Rootax

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    France
    Why are they focusing on this kind of stuff... Chill is useless and need specific tweaks to work. OSD , products already exist for that, and people interested in it are already using it... I mean, I wouldn't mind is AMD had ressources to spare, but given the state of Vega drivers, why waste time on this...
     
  11. Digidi

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    97
    Because community of amd whanted this. Maybe community was take over by Nvidia trolls! :D
    https://radeon.com/radeonsoftware/feedback/
     
    BRiT likes this.
  12. Lightman

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    Torquay, UK
    I will gladly stop using Afterburner for driver buil-in OSD, so for me it's a plus. Besides, it's not like they had to draw low level DirectX driver developer to add this kind of feature. They are worked on by different teams, so there is almost no drawback to it.
     
  13. Jawed

    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    10,873
    Likes Received:
    767
    Location:
    London
    Aren't there performance problems caused by some of these OSD programs?
     
  14. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    2,172
    Location:
    La-la land
    Well, I thought that since it has 'Redux' in the name, there has to be repetition... :p

    I'm happy they're adding it. Radeon chill is a cool feature, wish it worked universally though, or at least wasn't mutually exclusive with framerate capping; the driver could do Chill in titles that support it, and then cap FPS in all the others. That would be even better.

    Afterburner I'd just as soon not install at all since it's MSI branded and I have no MSI stuff in my PC. I have nothing against MSI; if anything their hardware might actually be better than my preferred brand ASUS; it is simply a peace of mind thing. I like consistency. It's why I stick to certain brands of hardware and those only, like all my fans are Noctua, and so on. :p
     
    digitalwanderer and BRiT like this.
  15. CSI PC

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,050
    Likes Received:
    844
    Oh man not always a good idea to rely heavily on the community though.
    Look at the amusing situation where the very expensive and sensible Scientific Vessel in the UK had the highest input from the community to be called Boaty McBoatface (which started as a witty tweet) :)
     
  16. Rootax

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    571
    Location:
    France

    I don't use Afterburner. But the combo RTSS (you're not obligated to installer afterburner with it) + hwinfo is really flexible IMO.

    Anyway... Maybe I overreacted. I just hope they don't chose to implement that instead of working on performances and features (primitive shaders ?)
     
    Grall likes this.
  17. Bondrewd

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2017
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    237
    I don't think they are that insane.
     
  18. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,853
    Likes Received:
    4,463
    Anyone else looking at the coincidence of the 3rd party Vega 64 leaks starting to come up at the same time as this year's major driver release starts being teased?
     
  19. Bondrewd

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2017
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    237
    That one should be pretty obvious.
    AMD kinda sorta fucked up the first round of reviews.
    Gotta fix it somehow.
     
    #1759 Bondrewd, Nov 19, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    el etro likes this.
  20. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,230
    Likes Received:
    1,752
    Location:
    Winfield, IN USA
    In hindsight, I will admit this launch did not go quite as well as I'd hoped or planned. :(
     
    Lightman likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...