AMD: R8xx Speculation

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Shtal, Jul 19, 2008.

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How soon will Nvidia respond with GT300 to upcoming ATI-RV870 lineup GPUs

Poll closed Oct 14, 2009.
  1. Within 1 or 2 weeks

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  2. Within a month

    5 vote(s)
    3.2%
  3. Within couple months

    28 vote(s)
    18.1%
  4. Very late this year

    52 vote(s)
    33.5%
  5. Not until next year

    69 vote(s)
    44.5%
  1. Shtal

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    RV770 were 2.5x more power then RV670.....

    lol: Is it possible to predict RV870 will also have 2.5x more power then RV770.

    SPECULATION
    ATI RV870
    40nm
    (480 *5D) = 2400 Stream Processors
    120 TMU's
    32 ROP's
    354m㎡
    512bit GDDR5 memory
     
  2. CarstenS

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    Don't forget the 60% increase in clock rate, plus shader hotclock and of course, the boost to 80 fat ALUs per SIMD - so you can just promote everything to FP64 and do not have to make a living on the obsolete FP32.

    One of the above was actually serious. :) Go figure...
     
  3. rpg.314

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    I am skeptical about this. AMD's strategy is to make mid range gpu's. 354 mm is closer to high end of moderate than lower end. (nvidia wont mind doing that thought, they thought even 576 mm is ok and worth $650, :smile:)

    I would imagine somewhat smaller die size. In the 230 - 270 mm range. Having said that, rv8xx 's successor will in all probability be made on 32 nm as TSMC is said to get 32 nm up and running by end of next year. So it might actually end up around 300mm2.

    As for 512 bit memory, My gut feeling is that they wont do it.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  4. hoom

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    'Gut feeling'? :roll:
    They had to throw in 1/5th of the final processing power of RV770 (200GFLOPS worth!) just to fill space because they were pad limited for a 256bit bus.
     
  5. rpg.314

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    I gotta ask this. What is meant by pads? And how do they limit you?

    'Gut feeling' - They didnt go for 512 bit bus with rv770 when nvidia did. Their must be some advantages to it (256 bit + gddr5) over (512 bit + gddr3). I mean while they might increase the bus width, I am doubtful they'll double it outright.
     
  6. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    The pads are the connections between the die and the package. They have a certain size and cannot be made smaller. So for a given number of connections you need a certain minimum die size to accomodate all of them. The original RV770 design was too small to accomodate a 256-bit bus so they had to add more SIMDs to fill it out a bit and make it big enough. It's a really nice problem to have.
     
  7. CarstenS

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    I'm having a hard time believing this, actually. After all, the RV670 was quite a bit smaller and had a 256 Bit interface as well. Or did GDDR5 require the pads to become bigger (as clocks increase)?
     
  8. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
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    Probably... At last, the only hint here is that a GDDR5 device is up with 34 pins per chip from GDDR3, if that matters. And the CF side-port thingy eats some more real estate there, too.
     
  9. nyt

    nyt
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    So the 4850 could have been equipped with a smaller 'RV760' having 600SPs, no CF/GDDR5 support, because it wouldn't be pad limited using the same size as RV670? ;)
     
  10. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
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    I think that won't fit into the ATi's strategy, e.g. few ASIC designs satisfying the widest range of board SKUs. The diversification of the product line is pushed outside the chip, to put it that way:

    * cheap board/memory (4850)
    * performance design with a new fast memory (4870)
    * boutique high-end (4800 X2)

    It's all around a single GPU, not even bothering with fused parts, like the 8800GT is.
    The same ordering is valid for the previous HD3000 line.
     
  11. turtle

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    After a night out at the pub, I came home and felt the gpu speculation flow through my fingers as if from a higher power.

    I thought I'd revive this thread by throwing something at the wall and seeing what sticks, and because when you come home by yourself at 3am, there's nothing better than gpu speculation.


    我的中国朋友,

    这些都不是真正的规格,但只针对投机的交谈。



    GTX-300 - ~200mm, 40nm


    1. Nvidia GTX 380

    480 sp
    2GB GDDR5
    834/2085/4700
    64 ROPs
    160 TMUs
    3 Teraflops
    256-bit
    150+ Gbps
    <225W

    $449


    2. Nvidia GTX 360

    384 sp
    1536MB DDR5
    780/1950/4200
    56 Rops
    128 TMUs
    2.25 Teraflops
    192-bit
    100+Gbps
    <150W

    $349

    3. Nvidia GX2 380

    960 sp
    834/2085/4700
    64x2 ROPs (128)
    160x2 TMUs (320)
    6 Teraflops
    256-bit x 2
    150gbps+ x 2 (300gbps)
    < 300W

    $699

    RV870 - ~140mm2 (similar size to Rv730) 40nm

    1. ATi 5800 series

    12 arrays
    512MB/1GB GDDR5
    192x5 (960 sp)
    c650mhz/782mhz
    m4700mhz/5700mhz
    16 ROPs
    48 TMUs
    1.25/1.5 Teraflops
    128-bit
    75gbps/90gbps
    <75W/150W
    512MB-1GB GDDR5
    $179/$219


    2. 5800 X2 series (R870 dual core w/ shared memory via sideport)

    24 arrays
    1GB/2GB GDDR5
    384x5 (1920 sp)
    c650/782mhz
    m4700mhz/5700mhz
    32 ROPs
    96 TMUs
    2.5/3 Teraflops
    128-bit per chip
    150gbps/180gbps
    <150W/<225W


    $299/$399

    3. 5800 X4 series (R870 dual core package x 2 connected with PLX chip?)

    24x2 arrays (48)
    2x1GB/2x2GB
    384x5 x 2 (3840 sp)
    c650/782
    m4700mhz/5500mhz
    32x2 ROPs (64)
    96x2 TMUs (192)
    5/6 Teraflops
    128-bit per chip, each package can share mem
    150gbps x 2 (300gbps)/ 175Gbps x 2 (350gbps)
    <225W / < 300W
    2GB/4GB

    $499/$599

    4. RV740 ~70mm2. Essentially 3800 series performance using a 128-bit controller and gddr5...

    HD5670

    64x5 (320 sp)
    512MB/1GB
    c800mhz/1ghz
    m4000mhz/5000mhz
    16 ROPs
    16 TMUs
    512Gflops/640Gflops
    128-bit
    64gbps/80gbps
    <45W / <75W

    $99/$129
     
    #111 turtle, Aug 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2008
  12. Tchock

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    Let me guess, PCInlife.

    No other site has such optimistic lopsided people!
     
  13. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Indeed, not to mention that who ever wrote 'em apparently skipped math in school
    Ye, sure, <225 could be under 150W too but looking at the rest of it, it would be reported as <150W then, and <225+<225 definately ain't <300W in this case when everything else says nothing has been scrapped / downlocked or anything
     
  14. Tchock

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    Plus they got their info wrong.

    RV730 already IS RV670 performance compute-wise. RV740 from what I've heard is aiming to be much more of an ambitious midrange at 40nm.
     
  15. Wesker

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    I've got a small, candle light sized flame of hope that R800 will follow a monolithic, single chip design.

    Can I just say that I hope ATI's 5000 series doesn't go the way of Nvidia's 5000 series. :p
     
  16. _xxx_

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    Pads at the bottom of the die connecting it to the outer world, they just fill up all the available space. For more pads they would have to increase the area, making the whole thing way more costly.

    They just relized that 512-bit would do nothing significant for this chip except raising costs. Thus the use of faster memory which gave them enough bandwidth to avoid the need for a wider bus. Finally they started learning something from history.
     
  17. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
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    NV would have IMHLO some serious brain damage if they'd arrive with something that sports 160TMUs and on top of that twice as much for a GX2. TMU can of course mean many things, depending on capabilities, but the majority of that GT3x stuff sounds like utter nonsense. Same goes for 64 ROPs@256bit.

    What's a GT3x supposed to be anyway? NV's D3D11 core or what? If yes then I'd be mighty careful even thinking of any ROPs as we know them today heh....
     
  18. Chris123234

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    Why would doubling the the larger nVidia chip result in a much smaller percentage of power usage increase than doubling the smaller AMD chip??
     
  19. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
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    Because in speculation land, anything is possible.
     
  20. Kanyamagufa

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    Hahaha, that was pure brilliance. Serious comedic points there, my friend. :grin:
     
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