Are you disappointed with next-gen consoles for 2020? [XBSX, PS5]

[Shifty Geezer]

You're still largely dealing with large, linear data rather than hopping randomly around RAM. Automatic prefetching should remain typically effective. The difference between 32 MBs cache and 8 MBs is probably going to be a few % faster performance*. You have to draw the line somewhere.

* Well, we know it is, because if, say, 32 MB meant double the performance, the design wouldn't drop it as it'd be the most cost effective way to up performance.

 

[Scott_Arm]

You're still largely dealing with large, linear data rather than hopping randomly around RAM. Automatic prefetching should remain typically effective. The difference between 32 MBs cache and 8 MBs is probably going to be a few % faster performance*. You have to draw the line somewhere.

* Well, we know it is, because if, say, 32 MB meant double the performance, the design wouldn't drop it as it'd be the most cost effective way to up performance.

I would have though 8MB was very small for Ryzen, but Ryzen 5 is 16MB L3 right now, so 8MB is probably pretty good for a console.

 

[goonergaz]

Baseless, another verified nobody at resetera (so PSman1700 can ignore this) has implied PS5 will be over 10TF;

"Consider my replies as personal opinion / not entirely based in facts. Still... do you really think PS5 is below 10tf?"

 

[AlNom]

hm... so we're looking at ~25-30mm^2 die savings on there if it's only 4MB per CCX.

+/- for the IF links & glue for the GPU - or cancelled out.

 

[Esrever]

do you really think PS5 is below 10tf?"

This sounds like denial more than anything.

 

[szymku]

Thing is that 9 or 10 or 12 TF is a lot. I am still using Radeon 7970 (3,8 TF) in my PC and after 7 year did not feel the urge to update it. Boy - GeForce 1080 is 8,8 TF and it is a monster.
And somehow people are disappointed with rumours.

 

[N2O]

Baseless, another verified nobody at resetera (so PSman1700 can ignore this) has implied PS5 will be over 10TF;

"Consider my replies as personal opinion / not entirely based in facts. Still... do you really think PS5 is below 10tf?"

If Sony goes under 10tf it's mostly because they want a cheaper price console(compare to Xbox) so PS4 players can translate to PS5 as soon as possible.
But it seems some people in era and gaf seems see it as a shamefur dispray.

 

[Proelite]

Baseless, another verified nobody at resetera (so PSman1700 can ignore this) has implied PS5 will be over 10TF;

"Consider my replies as personal opinion / not entirely based in facts. Still... do you really think PS5 is below 10tf?"

PS5 10.1 TF confirmed.

 

[Nesh]

Thing is that 9 or 10 or 12 TF is a lot. I am still using Radeon 7970 (3,8 TF) in my PC and after 7 year did not feel the urge to update it. Boy - GeForce 1080 is 8,8 TF and it is a monster.
And somehow people are disappointed with rumours.

7 year old GPU is so old gen

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Yea we are talking like 9-10TF Navi is little. Go back to time when Navi 10 was released and you will see same people that now say its too little, hoping for 9TF.

Hitting those performance in next gen consoles would likely mean going over the expected TDP limit and well above what PS4/Xbone and Pro delivered upon release.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yea we are talking like 9-10TF Navi is little.

That's because of the universal inequality "power < rival == too little".

 

[Proelite]

That's because of the universal inequality "power < rival == too little".

RTX2070 S - RTX 2080 performance a year ago: 'OMG BS don't set yourself up for disappointment'.

Today: RTX 2080 perf is disappointing, can't give up 30% perf advantage to rival.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Thing is that 9 or 10 or 12 TF is a lot. I am still using Radeon 7970 (3,8 TF) in my PC and after 7 year did not feel the urge to update it. Boy - GeForce 1080 is 8,8 TF and it is a monster.
And somehow people are disappointed with rumours.

Saying 9TF is a lot is just condescending.

It's not a lot. It's what a midrange GPU allowed for in 2019 using a brand new unoptimized process at the time.

The 2013 consoles had their potential power set back by a massive worldwide financial crisis that developed as they started planning the architectures.
This is not the case for 2020 releases.
The GTX1080 is a GPU from 2016, it's over 4 years old. It's not a monster by any means.

 

[iroboto]

Saying 9TF is a lot is just condescending.

It's not a lot. It's what a midrange GPU allowed for in 2019 using a brand new unoptimized process at the time.

The 2013 consoles had their potential power set back by a massive worldwide financial crisis that developed as they started planning the architectures.
This is not the case for 2020 releases.
The GTX1080 is a GPU from 2016, it's over 4 years old. It's not a monster by any means.

I don't think he meant it that way. It's all relative.

I mean by comparison, a Titan X was 2015 years ago at 11 TF. But it was later beat out by the 1080TI in late 2017 (same amount of teraflops)

I don't think using the graphics cards is a good way to baseline performance. Without seeing what developers can do with the hardware, I think it's just 1 big guessing game.
Sure I think anyone can reasonably understand that more is better. But end of the day, GPU power is just 1 aspect of the total experience.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Getting 10TF inside the power envelope for a console makes it a lot.

 

[snc]

Saying 9TF is a lot is just condescending.

It's not a lot. It's what a midrange GPU allowed for in 2019 using a brand new unoptimized process at the time.

The 2013 consoles had their potential power set back by a massive worldwide financial crisis that developed as they started planning the architectures.
This is not the case for 2020 releases.
The GTX1080 is a GPU from 2016, it's over 4 years old. It's not a monster by any means.

It's a lot taking into account x one, ps4, ps4 pro and x one x tdp and their dekstop equivalent tdp on same process. But Microsoft seem's to go new path (higher tdp, bigget tower) and I think sony with ps5 also.

 

[Esrever]

Saying 9TF is a lot is just condescending.

It's not a lot. It's what a midrange GPU allowed for in 2019 using a brand new unoptimized process at the time.

The 7870 was launched >1 year before the consoles at $350 and the ps4 launched more than a year later for $399. By the time the PS4 launched, the 7870 was rebranded as the 270x for $200.

I mean right now, $200 won't even buy you a 5600XT maybe it will drop by $80 by the time the PS5 is out. For them to use a GPU more powerful than a 5700XT is actually a pretty big improvement if your expectations were based on what was used last gen. If they really launch at the same prices, then a $200 GPU would make sense, which would be a GPU between the 5500XT at $170 and a 5600XT at $280 by today's pricing.

 

[Nesh]

People care a lot in the console space, because once a console sets its hardware it is stuck with it forever and all releases are expected to be either better or worse compared to the other console.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

For them to use a GPU more powerful than a 5700XT is actually a pretty big improvement if your expectations were based on what was used last gen.

No, my expextations are based on consoles that weren't designed during a worldwide financial crisis, such as the PS3 that used a flagship G70 GPU and the X360 used a GPU more powerful than the X1800XT of that time. The OG Xbox used a NV2A which was more powerful than the NV20 when it released.

Bottom line is save for multi-GPU solutions the consoles always used GPUs that matched or surpassed their PC alternatives on release date, and the only exception was Gen8 because of a financial crisis.

 

[PSman1700]

such as the PS3 that used a flagship G70 GPU

Nope, it was quite far behind actually. The 8000 series came even before the PS3, 8800GTX was miles ahead of anything before it.

X360 used a GPU more powerful than the X1800XT of that time. The OG Xbox used a NV2A which was more powerful than the NV20 when it released.

Not more powerfull, more advanced perhaps.

Bottom line is save for multi-GPU solutions the consoles always used GPUs that matched or surpassed their PC alternatives on release date, and the only exception was Gen8 because of a financial crisis.

Actually, in raw power, PC has always been ahead even on release.