All purpose Sales and Sales Rumors and Anecdotes [2018 Edition]

[mrcorbo]

The reason was probably one of many. I think MS sent out a load of consoles to hip celebs. But also 360 was out a year before PS3 and so had sold ~3m by the time is was released. A year later 360 had roughly a 3:1 advantage.

The year-early launch mattered, but it wouldn't be the first thing I would cite. Not a lot of people wanted to buy PS3 at $599 (and portion of those wanted it just to play BluRays), games looked/performed worse on it and Xbox Live was a much better way to play multiplayer games with your friends for quite a while. In fact, Xbox Live was probably the biggest single reason for the 360's sales success. They nailed that aspect of the system right from the start.

The Xbox sold well because it was a good product that was marketed well. The biggest challenge it faced was the manufacturing/design issues that led to the hardware failures and MS dealt with that about as well as they could. It's remarkable that even when people were well aware of these problems, they continued to buy them anyway. It speaks to how appealing the product was that people were willing to overlook this even once they knew that they would likely, at some point, have to go through the inconvenience of going through the warranty repair process.

 

[Nesh]

The Xbox sold well because it was a good product that was marketed well. The biggest challenge it faced was the manufacturing/design issues that led to the hardware failures and MS dealt with that about as well as they could. It's remarkable that even when people were well aware of these problems, they continued to buy them anyway. It speaks to how appealing the product was that people were willing to overlook this even once they knew that they would likely, at some point, have to go through the inconvenience of going through the warranty repair process.

I believe that was partly due to MS releasing new versions of the 360 that supposedly fixed the issue. Even though they didnt exactly fix it

 

[mrcorbo]

I believe that was partly due to MS releasing new versions of the 360 that supposedly fixed the issue. Even though they didnt exactly fix it

I don't think many would have been taking their word for it that they fixed it at that point. That's why MS kept offering the 3 year warranty for so long.

 

[goonergaz]

The year-early launch mattered, but it wouldn't be the first thing I would cite. Not a lot of people wanted to buy PS3 at $599 (and portion of those wanted it just to play BluRays), games looked/performed worse on it and Xbox Live was a much better way to play multiplayer games with your friends for quite a while. In fact, Xbox Live was probably the biggest single reason for the 360's sales success. They nailed that aspect of the system right from the start.

The Xbox sold well because it was a good product that was marketed well. The biggest challenge it faced was the manufacturing/design issues that led to the hardware failures and MS dealt with that about as well as they could. It's remarkable that even when people were well aware of these problems, they continued to buy them anyway. It speaks to how appealing the product was that people were willing to overlook this even once they knew that they would likely, at some point, have to go through the inconvenience of going through the warranty repair process.

Oh yeah, I was just in a hurry and let's face it the delay was what started the advantage. Once PS3 was out you then had price and face-offs and it was game over in the US...as I said, within a year.

However WW Sony still managed to claw back an unlikely draw...which (IMO) shows how badly MS are thought of outside of the US + UK.

 

[goonergaz]

Kind of moot as it's the opposite of Microsoft's messaging. Forwards portable code is the goal of their key tent technical initiatives. It's also the right time technically. I.e. PS2 had full b/c with PS1 but going from high-res 16:9 PS2 games back to low-res 4:3 PS1 gams with janky-warping 3D was rough. Last gen to current gen was iterative and the next leap likely will be too. Who wants to lose their Gears, Halo, Uncharted, God of War, The Last of Us, Spider-Man, Sea of Thieves, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, The Witcher, Tomb Raider, Far Cry, Call of Duty, Battlefield/front, Assassin's Creed game libraries?

I really don't think BC is that important...and I was always a major pro BC guy...and maybe next gen will be a bit different...but it didn't help PS3 Vs a non BC X360 and it hasn't help MS close the gap on Sony this gen nor affected PS4 popularity in any negative way (from what we can tell anyway).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I really don't think BC is that important...and I was always a major pro BC guy...and maybe next gen will be a bit different...but it didn't help PS3 Vs a non BC X360 and it hasn't help MS close the gap on Sony this gen nor affected PS4 popularity in any negative way (from what we can tell anyway).

PS3 largely wasn't BC. And the argument DSoup has presented is where BC wasn't important before (see discussion on this board 'importance of BC'!), that situation has quite possibly changed, so the counter ought to be that nothing is different and a new gen with new games won't be hampered. Given the change in gaming habits (mobile, download), I think the mainstream will see one console being future-proof versus another being 'chuck away your old games' as definitely worth considering.

 

[mrcorbo]

Any console maker who wants consumers to buy games digitally (so all of them) is going to be hurt in those efforts if they don't allow people to carry forward their purchases. Since you can't sell, trade or give those games away (yet) the value of those items goes to zero once you no longer have the means to access them. Unless one of the platform holders thinks it's a good idea to pull a Mattrick-esque, "If you want to play your old games, we have a console for you: your old console" not having BC isn't really an option.

 

[mrcorbo]

Any console maker who wants consumers to buy games digitally (so all of them) is going to be hurt in those efforts if they don't allow people to carry forward their purchases. Since you can't sell, trade or give those games away (yet) the value of those items goes to zero once you no longer have the means to access them. Unless one of the platform holders thinks it's a good idea to pull a Mattrick-esque, "If you want to play your old games, we have a console for you: your old console" not having BC isn't really an option.

Nintendo - "Hold my beer."

It's not exactly the same thing, but justifying the concerns of digital media holdouts is not a great idea.

 

[AzBat]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090721181160914946

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090722244765106188

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090723244590710786

Tommy McClain

 

[AlNom]

I don't suppose it's possible to calculate a revenue per MAU? I suppose it'd be very ballpark with loads of assumptions, of course, and not very accurate. Average, for example, is ~$22 per MAU ($4.23B/3 months * 64M users). I suppose it'd be interesting to look at it historically per quarter in that context since MAU isn't constant.

 

[mrcorbo]

I don't suppose it's possible to calculate a revenue per MAU? I suppose it'd be very ballpark and not very accurate. Average is ~$20 per MAU! (for example)

Loads of assumptions, of course, but I suppose it'd be interesting to look at it historically per quarter in that context since MAU isn't constant.

Should be 4.23B [Revenue] / (64M [MAU] * 3 [months per Quarter]), so 4,230,000,000/(64,000,000*3) = $22.03 (including hardware sales, which would obviously be higher than normal in this quarter).

 

[AlNom]

Right, edited that in already.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090721181160914946

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090722244765106188

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090723244590710786

Tommy McClain

Zhuge also commented in that thread that it was the best Quarter this generation for Microsoft in gaming. They'll be in a relatively good place if they can carry that momentum into the next round of consoles.

As long as they maintain compatibility between generations I don't see things falling off as a new generation of consoles comes online. Maintaining compatibility between generations will also be key for Gamepass, IMO, as well as for bolstering consumer confidence in that service.

Regards,
SB

 

[wco81]

Switch turned around the fortunes of Nintendo after the failure with the Wii U. Second-best selling Nintendo system in the first 22-23 months, only bested by the Wii:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/putting-switchs-32-million-shipments-in-context/

37.79 million: Nintendo's original projection for lifetime Switch sales through March 2019, made in April (including 20 million for current fiscal year)
34.79 million: Nintendo's adjusted projection for lifetime Switch sales through March 2019, made last night (including 17 million for current fiscal year)
34.55 million: Wii systems shipped worldwide in ~23 months
32.27 million: Switch systems shipped worldwide in ~22 months
29.85 million: Nintendo 3DS systems shipped worldwide in ~23 months
29.3 million: PS4 systems shipped worldwide in ~23 months
26.82 million: Nintendo DS systems shipped in ~23 months
28.68 million: PS2 systems shipped worldwide in ~25 months (includes only ~18 months of North American sales)
19 million: Estimated Xbox One systems shipped worldwide after ~26 months
16.84 million: PS3 systems shipped worldwide in ~23 months
14.49 million: Switch systems shipped worldwide April to December 2018
13.7 million: Original Xbox systems shipped worldwide in ~26 months
13.4 million: Xbox 360 systems shipped worldwide in ~23 months
12.13 million: Switch systems shipped worldwide April to December 2017
10.45 million: GameCube systems shipped worldwide in ~23 months
9.41 million: Switch systems shipped worldwide October to December 2018
7.24 million: Switch systems shipped worldwide October to December 2017

In addition to console sales, the Switch has brought about a resurgence in sales of Nintendo first-party game franchises:

[B]Mario Kart franchise sales[/B]

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Switch): 15.02 million
Mario Kart 8 (Wii U): 8.42 million
Mario Kart 7 (3DS): 18.11 million
Mario Kart Wii (Wii): 37.14 million
Mario Kart DS (DS): 23.6 million
Mario Kart Double Dash (GameCube): 6.96 million
Mario Kart Super Circuit (GBA): 5.91 million
Mario Kart 64 (N64): 9.87 million
Super Mario Kart (SNES): 8.76 million
Additional source: (1)

[B]Super Smash Bros. franchise sales[/B]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (Switch): 12.08 million
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (Wii U): 5.35 million
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii): 13.29 million
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GameCube): 7.09 million
Super Smash Bros. (N64): "Over 5 million"
Additional source: (1)

[B]Super Mario franchise sales (3D titles)[/B]

Super Mario Odyssey (Switch): 13.76 million
Super Mario 3D World (Wii U): 5.8 million
Super Mario 3D Land (3DS): 12.41 million
Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii): 7.41 million
Super Mario Galaxy (Wii): 12.78 million
Super Mario Sunshine (GameCube): 5.5 million
Super Mario 64 (N64): 11.9 million
Additional sources: (1) (2)

[B]The Legend of Zelda franchise sales (3D titles)[/B]

Breath of the Wild (Switch): 11.68 million
Skyward Sword (Wii): 3.04 million
Twilight Princess (Wii/GameCube): 8.85 million
Wind Waker (GameCube): 4.6 million
Ocarina of Time (N64): 7.6 million

 

[Shortbread]

per ZhugeEX

Sony posted its Q3 FY2018 earnings today which covers the 3 month period ending December 31st 2018.

Looking specifically at the Game & Network services division:

• Revenue up 10% YoY to ¥790.6 billion, primarily driven by an increase in game software sales and partially offset by the impact of a decrease in PS4 hardware unit sales selling at promotional prices during the year-end selling season.
• Operating Income declined 14% YoY to ¥73.1 billion. This was primarily due to lower PS4 hardware unit sales compared to the prior year and a negative impact from from foreign exchange rates, partially offset by higher software sales.
• The full year forecast for Sony's Game and Network Services segment remains unchanged.
• PS4 shipped 8.1m units of hardware during the quarter taking the cumulative total to 94.2 million as Dec 31st 2018.
• A total of 87.2 million units of PS4 software were shipped during the quarter, of which 37% was digital full game downloads.
• There are now 36.3 million PlayStation Plus Subscribers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1091221666737373184

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q3_sonypre.pdf

From all indications, PS4 outsold Switch worldwide for 2018.

 

[chris1515]

per ZhugeEX

Sony posted its Q3 FY2018 earnings today which covers the 3 month period ending December 31st 2018.

Looking specifically at the Game & Network services division:

• Revenue up 10% YoY to ¥790.6 billion, primarily driven by an increase in game software sales and partially offset by the impact of a decrease in PS4 hardware unit sales selling at promotional prices during the year-end selling season.
• Operating Income declined 14% YoY to ¥73.1 billion. This was primarily due to lower PS4 hardware unit sales compared to the prior year and a negative impact from from foreign exchange rates, partially offset by higher software sales.
• The full year forecast for Sony's Game and Network Services segment remains unchanged.
• PS4 shipped 8.1m units of hardware during the quarter taking the cumulative total to 94.2 million as Dec 31st 2018.
• A total of 87.2 million units of PS4 software were shipped during the quarter, of which 37% was digital full game downloads.
• There are now 36.3 million PlayStation Plus Subscribers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1091221666737373184

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q3_sonypre.pdf

From all indications, PS4 outsold Switch worldwide for 2018.

PS4
Q1 2018 : 2,5M
Q2 2018 : 3,2M
Q3 2018 : 3,9M
Q4 2018 : 8,1M
17,7M

Switch
Q1 2018 : 2,93M
Q2 2018 : 1,88M
Q3 2018 : 3,19M
Q4 2018 : 9,42M
17,4M

And they have less console in stock than last year and they sold more console than they shipped console. Maybe a new PS4 model in approach (Super slim 7nm?).

 

[Xbat]

PSN alone made more revenue than the entirety of Nintendo in 2018. This is why I believe a loss leader model for next gen is more viable than ever.

Can't risk the growth of your network because of weaker hardware and I know people will say that the strongest hardware doesn't matter but it's a different time now with social media.

In fact it made almost the same as Nintendo and Xbox division combined.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, the profits are now so much stronger that a larger loss can be swallowed in the hardware. Sony's thinking here must be, "we have to keep hold of all these PS users!" while MS is looking to expand their services across multiple devices. For MS, the possibility of getting hundreds of millions of existing PC users to sub to Xbox must be a far more attractive proposition then trying to sell XB consoles.

 

[chris1515]

PSN alone made more revenue than the entirety of Nintendo in 2018. This is why I believe a loss leader model for next gen is more viable than ever.

Can't risk the growth of your network because of weaker hardware and I know people will say that the strongest hardware doesn't matter but it's a different time now with social media.

In fact it made almost the same as Nintendo and Xbox division combined.

It means probably backward compatiblity with PS4 too.

 

[chris1515]

Very interesting

https://twinfinite.net/2019/02/sony-cloud-vs-ps4/

We hear that Sony is cautious about “potential volatility in profitability” for PlayStation “due to the console cycle going forward.” Yet, they’re working to mitigate the volatility by leveraging the over 91.6 million units installed base of PS4.