All purpose Sales and Sales Rumours and Anecdotes [2022 Edition]

[Nesh]

Yup, we all know that Sony foreclosed Nintendo's ability to compete in the "high performance console" market when they "incentivized" Square-Enix to not release Final Fantasy games on Nintendo consoles starting with the N64. I mean it wasn't like the IP got it's start on Nintendo consoles and was a staple of Nintendo consoles until the N64.

More like Nintendo de-incentivize Square from making it on their console. We covered this with Square's direct interviews. They were trying to make it on N64 but the hardware performance and the limited cardridge memory made it impossible to make the game they wanted. After Nintendo's mistakes and demotivating support, Nintendo indeed got themselves in position where they couldnt compete like for like with either MS or Sony. The same experience with less popular games than Sony and MS would have killed them.
If they continued competing like for like they would have got themselves out of the hardware business just like Sega. Hence why their business model, after GC's underwhelming market performance, changed. Their consoles after that, weren't focused on high performance but on other aspects. Such as low cost lower performance consoles that diversify themselves with focus either on motion sensors or handheld hybrid experiences.
Wii was literally on the level of performance of GC, the WiiU was on a level of a PS360 with an identity crisis (it was like a delayed Nintendo PS360 equivalent that came way too late) and Switch is not even on a level of a PS4 or a One.

Nintendo doesn't compete in performance, online services or not even with the same game profile support that Sony and MS are getting. They are indeed playing on a different field with only some overlapping with the rest of the console makers.

If anyone thinks that a MS or a Sony console with less support of the games they currently get and a generation behind performance than their competitor (either Sony or MS) would do well, they are lying to themselves, unless they are able to diversify themselves out of the experience and games they are known and bought for.

The One got heavily criticized by the customers for a small percentage of less performance. Let alone a generation behind. The customers buying a Sony/MS console are largely expecting a different experience from those buying a Switch.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Nintendo back at that time was notoriously arrogant and bullish due to their president and former console success.

Everything that happened with Sony happened due to Sony being savvy with devs that were put off by Nintendos attitude who were already looking elsewhere, and Sony just being smart about how they went about the situation in general with their more forward facing technology.

Not too dissimilar to Sega with Nintendo after the NES. Of course Sega quickly squandered any real advantage they had in being an alternative to Nintendo with absolutely bone headed decisions and infighting before the Genesis era was even through

 

[chris1515]

The cardridge was the problem of Nintendo 64. Sony beat Nintendo with a better and cheaper storage for third party. Sony disrupted the way Nintendo was controlling the distribution of games.

 

[Nesh]

The cardridge was the problem of Nintendo 64. Sony beat Nintendo with a better and cheaper storage for third party. Sony disrupted the way Nintendo was controlling the distribution of games.

It wasnt Sony. All signs indicated that CD based formats was going to be the future. Nintendo decided to not to use that. 3D0, Sega Saturn, Playstation, even the original Nintendo Playstation design was going to use CDs. The N64 came 2 years after Sega Saturn and Playstation. Its as if the XBOX 360 decided to have no internet compatibility in 2005 when past consoles supported it.

Nintendo was affected also by anti-trust laws that werent applied to them before, and a delay of console releases. Nintendo had their developers tied to exclusive contracts prior to the 32 bit era.
It is one of the reasons why Sega was trying to release the Genesis early to secure the release of games on the 16bit machine before Nintendo could join and continue their dominance.
Namco took Nintendo to courts once and Nintendo knowing their market position knew that Namco stood zero chance businesswise to continue with the court case. They were in need to release games to get revenue. So they were forced to drop it and release games on Nitendo. That bitter taste left in Namco, was one of the reasons why they were full on to collaborate with Sony with Playstation.

Basically Nintendo screwed themselves over. It is Nintendo that disrupted the market against them.

 

[mr magoo]

Verge article

Sony says the PlayStation 5 shortage is over

Just in time for the PS VR2.

www.theverge.com

Perfect timing for Sony imo. 2022 was very dry for Xbox but 2023 seems to be much better when it comes to content. Forza , starfield, redfall, atomic heart, wulong dynasty plus more. All on GP as well. If Sony manage to satisfy market demand for units quickly the gap between series and ps5 can be much bigger then it is right now.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It wasnt Sony. All signs indicated that CD based formats was going to be the future. Nintendo decided to not to use that. 3D0, Sega Saturn, Playstation, even the original Nintendo Playstation design was going to use CDs. The N64 came 2 years after Sega Saturn and Playstation. Its as if the XBOX 360 decided to have no internet compatibility in 2005 when past consoles supported it.

Nintendo was affected also by anti-trust laws that werent applied to them before, and a delay of console releases. Nintendo had their developers tied to exclusive contracts prior to the 32 bit era.
It is one of the reasons why Sega was trying to release the Genesis early to secure the release of games on the 16bit machine before Nintendo could join and continue their dominance.
Namco took Nintendo to courts once and Nintendo knowing their market position knew that Namco stood zero chance businesswise to continue with the court case. They were in need to release games to get revenue. So they were forced to drop it and release games on Nitendo. That bitter taste left in Namco, was one of the reasons why they were full on to collaborate with Sony with Playstation.

Basically Nintendo screwed themselves over. It is Nintendo that disrupted the market against them.

While true, it takes competent competition exploiting weaknesses to actually work. As you said, Sega had CD formats in the past but they were nowhere near up to the level of fully competing with Nintendo. To the point where Sony made them actually irrelevant in the marketplace and unable to compete.

It takes two to tango. Xbox one would not have been such a rough generation for MS if they had not shot themselves in the foot but it took both that and Sony capitalizing to fully get where we got. And the same was true with PS3s stumbling out the gate and Xbox 360s breakout success

 

[Nesh]

While true, it takes competent competition exploiting weaknesses to actually work. As you said, Sega had CD formats in the past but they were nowhere near up to the level of fully competing with Nintendo. To the point where Sony made them actually irrelevant in the marketplace and unable to compete.

It takes two to tango. Xbox one would not have been such a rough generation for MS if they had not shot themselves in the foot but it took both that and Sony capitalizing to fully get where we got. And the same was true with PS3s stumbling out the gate and Xbox 360s breakout success

Surely you need to be a good business to succeed. Sony did everything right with PS1 and PS2 without having to resort in anti-competitive tactics. With PS3 they screwed up big time in pretty much everything, making developers who were supporting Sony exclusively by their own decision to release on the 360. Sony lost support of games which were originally guaranteed to be exclusive on their platform. Final Fantasy? Tekken? Devil May Cry? This is how it goes. They learned their mistakes thankfully and did pretty much almost everything right again with PS4 and PS5.

Nintendo got themselves out of that market and differentiated themselves elsewhere. I give that to Nintendo. They surely know how to exist in their own bubble and are very very competent at recovering. They killed the WiiU very fast and designed a different product proposal that sells like hotcakes, maintaining their ability to have a hardware they can support. If they kept themselves stuck with WiiU and the Switch failed they would have probably resorted to releasing for others. And that Wii? Who would have expected. That was a huge risk. It was pretty much inferior in everything, it just offered a different experience and sold miles ahead than what everyone was expecting.

Sega just didnt have the resources anymore to come up with anything else after two generations of having their platforms eliminated. They had to become a third party software company to be able to sell and have a revenue stream or they would have become bankrupt with a third attempt.

 

[Inuhanyou]

With Sega....it would be one thing if they were trying hard by their own merits, but they constantly were putting wind in their own sails. Major fights between Sega of America and Sega of Japan, terrible hardware decisions, the incompetent nature of trying to aquire third party support all culminated in where they ended off in the Dreamcast. Which in my opinion was the best system they ever made. But their historical mess ups caught up with them in the face of more competent adversaries old and new

 

[Nesh]

With Sega....it would be one thing if they were trying hard by their own merits, but they constantly were putting wind in their own sails. Major fights between Sega of America and Sega of Japan, terrible hardware decisions, the incompetent nature of trying to aquire third party support all culminated in where they ended off in the Dreamcast. Which in my opinion was the best system they ever made. But their historical mess ups caught up with them in the face of more competent adversaries old and new

Yeah I agree they did almost everything perfect with the Dreamcast and it was a shame that there was nothing they could do after that.
It was powerful, it was easy to make games on, it was super cheap for the consumer, it had a huge list of awesome games, it had great marketing, it had an inbuilt modem, it had an online service...
If only they launched with the same mentality the Sega Saturn. We might have probably had Sega, Sony and Nintendo competing today.

 

[iroboto]

Among many things, Piracy killed Dreamcast.

 

[Dr. Nick]

Among many things, Piracy killed Dreamcast.

I disagree with this, IMO Playstation 1 and also Playstation 2 also had a piracy problem. I think part of the problem is that the Dreamcast library was more arcadey and experimental in comparison to it's competitors. That and the promise of the PlayStation 2 was too much for it. I say this as someone who still owns his Dreamcast.

 

[iroboto]

I disagree with this, IMO Playstation 1 and also Playstation 2 also had a piracy problem. I think part of the problem is that the Dreamcast library was more arcadey and experimental in comparison to it's competitors. That and the promise of the PlayStation 2 was too much for it. I say this as someone who still owns his Dreamcast.

But isn't the platform holder only making money off game sales? PS2 was so large, they were still making good money despite of piracy.

 

[iroboto]

I disagree with this, IMO Playstation 1 and also Playstation 2 also had a piracy problem. I think part of the problem is that the Dreamcast library was more arcadey and experimental in comparison to it's competitors. That and the promise of the PlayStation 2 was too much for it. I say this as someone who still owns his Dreamcast.

But I agree with the type of games on Dreamcast. Very arcadey and experimental. That worked really well for me, since as a PC user, I had PC games, and I didn't have access to arcadey games, like fighting games, so DC was simply awesome in that respect.

I can see how that falls dramatically pale in comparison to PS2.

 

[Nesh]

I disagree with this, IMO Playstation 1 and also Playstation 2 also had a piracy problem. I think part of the problem is that the Dreamcast library was more arcadey and experimental in comparison to it's competitors. That and the promise of the PlayStation 2 was too much for it. I say this as someone who still owns his Dreamcast.

Those certainly contributed too. But piracy on Dreamcast was far too easy to do. You didnt even need to chip the console. You could either burn a game disk with the bios, or have a bios disk for disk swapping.
I would say that the expectations for Playstation 2 was the biggest contributing factor.
Then it was the arcade experience on the DC, further giving the impression that it wouldnt hold a candle next to the big AAA big budget games that were going to be provided on the PS2.
And since everyone was expecting the PS2 to be better and didnt want to pay for short bursts of arcade experiences at full price, it incentivised piracy which was pretty easy to do.
Also the absence of EA really hurt Sega and it is said, it was because EA requested from Sega to stop making competing sports games on it, which Sega refused.

 

[Dr. Nick]

Also the absence of EA really hurt Sega and it is said, it was because EA requested from Sega to stop making competing sports games on it, which Sega refused.

Yep at the time in the USA that really hurt. Not sure if EA had FIFA at the time but if they did then man things were bad for them on the sports front when sports was one of the most important genre of gaming. More important than today IMO.

 

[Nesh]

Yep at the time in the USA that really hurt. Not sure if EA had FIFA at the time but if they did then man things were bad for them on the sports front when sports was one of the most important genre of gaming. More important than today IMO.

Yeah and to think of it,it is also
ironic. The Mega Drive was a success due to the close ties Sega developed with EA. The Mega Drive was the ultimate console to play the best sports games on and it enjoyed strong support from EA. Going from that with the Genesis to no support with the DC, was a blow. There was no Fifa released on the Dreamcast AFAIK. I d say not having the licensed sports games on your console , especially games like Fifa is almost dooming your console.

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613248734376124435

 

[Inuhanyou]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613248734376124435

I guess it's lucky for ol jimmy boy that the PS5 shortage supposedly ended when it did. They are supposed to have Europe locked up but I've seen tons of people complain that the US has been prioritized in past few years.

I still doubt Jim Ryan's words however. What proof do we have that the shortage is over on a permanent basis and not just short term supply excess

 

[chris1515]

I guess it's lucky for ol jimmy boy that the PS5 shortage supposedly ended when it did. They are supposed to have Europe locked up but I've seen tons of people complain that the US has been prioritized in past few years.

I still doubt Jim Ryan's words however. What proof do we have that the shortage is over on a permanent basis and not just short term supply excess

This is only for 2022.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613476955600392192

 

[Nesh]

I guess it's lucky for ol jimmy boy that the PS5 shortage supposedly ended when it did. They are supposed to have Europe locked up but I've seen tons of people complain that the US has been prioritized in past few years.

I still doubt Jim Ryan's words however. What proof do we have that the shortage is over on a permanent basis and not just short term supply excess

Norway is just one small country within Europe. We dont know how consoles are distributed or by how much the PS5 is selling in other EU territories.
Based on what I see on Social media PS5 seems to be more popular by far in EU territories.