All purpose Sales and Sales Rumors and Anecdotes [2016 Edition]

[Phil]

I agree. I upgraded from PS4 to Pro and had I been holding off and invested now I would have still gone for Pro but I don't think that is a bigger market than the number of people for which PS4 performance is more than good enough. I don't think Scorpio will change that, it's likely to be more costly still and the appeal as marginal if not more.

I used to be sucker for new, shiny and powerful. I'm still a sucker in that I will possibly line up to be among the first for a new console. But strangely, I am not sucker enough to want to invest in a PS4pro at this point, since my PS4 is more than adequate. It has great graphics, the games run smooth and well and I have greatly come to appreciate the quietness of the console sitting my livingroom. I'm still rather skeptical if the PS4pro remains as cool and quiet, but even so, why shell out another 400 or whatever it is (it isn't a lot mind you) just to replace the same for that smaller benefit in image quality, resolution (which I can't appreciate given I don't have a 4k set) and framerate?

If I wouldn't already own a PS4, yes, getting the Pro would be a no-brainer. But as it is, there just isn't enough incentive for me to 'upgrade' at this point. I will likely get a Pro when my PS4 reaches perhaps a 4 year age and there is a nice slim version of the pro (at that point, I would probably expect Sony to discontinue the old one at some point).

 

[iroboto]

Yeah, and I guess the moment sony need to step up competition in that segment will be when scorpio pricing is at least announced.

Going around in circles... maybe after all there was honestly some stock issues which means no reason for a price drop...

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/ps...lks-ps4-pro-ps-vr-and-super-mario-run-rivals/

Maybe amazon was hit more because of the gigantic volume they have are more impacted by production supplies issues.

It makes some sense to want upgraders, they end up pretty much confirmed customers for the next few years, instead of waiting for scorpio. They don't want people switching. It's interesting that first time ps4 buyers getting a Pro... I would have thought these are the ones waiting for price reason, so it looks like sony misjudged the same way?

Most sales for upgraders were obviously the preorders (i mean why wait at all?), so no holding up stock for BF, there was no reason. Then it's just the production cycle speed for the rest of the year.

That's a pretty big win for them in the UK, its going to be a big uphill climb to regain ground there. US, I think they're probably content with the way things are going (all things considered), but I wouldn't be too happy about losing huge grounds in the UK.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm still rather skeptical if the PS4pro remains as cool and quiet, but even so, why shell out another 400 or whatever it is (it isn't a lot mind you) just to replace the same for that smaller benefit in image quality, resolution (which I can't appreciate given I don't have a 4k set) and framerate?

My Pro is marginally quieter than my original PS4. Despite owning a 4K TV I would happily have skipped PS4 Pro if I didn't also have PSVR. The impact of Pro on PSVR visuals in some games is very noticeable.

4K visuals are definitely wasted on me. I have a gaming PC with Geforce 1080 hooked up to my 4K TV and run no games above 1440p because I can't see the difference. I'd rather my PC run cooler and quieter.

 

[DrJay24]

How close to a 65" 4k TV do you need to be to even resolve the pixels over a 1080P set? I think the Pro + 1080P TV is a better paring. Use the power for better frame rates or more effects. Some games go from 900P to 1080P too.

 

[zed]

How close to a 65" 4k TV do you need to be to even resolve the pixels over a 1080P set?

In before someone posts the Misinformative 20:20 graph

 

[mrcorbo]

In before someone posts the Misinformative 20:20 graph

 

[mrcorbo]

Double post:

So I'll add here that when you add HDR, 4K wins.

 

[wco81]

At least in US, it's becoming the case that you can only get the nicer models in 4K.

The only 1080p sets you can get are budget models or that will be the case soon.

 

[Rangers]

http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/08/p...sole-outsell-xbox-one-in-november-in-the-u-s/

Ps4 wins November as mostly expected.

Also notice Aquamarine's twitter seems deleted. So our current source for dodgy numbers is gone. And with NPD neo gaffers bowing out right and left (Cosmic no longer has access, Creamsugar AFAIK hasn't posted in ages), this is the first month I dont see hope of numbers leaked on the horizon, but we will see. Perhaps now we will only know the winner.

 

[Clukos]

http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/08/p...sole-outsell-xbox-one-in-november-in-the-u-s/

Ps4 wins November as mostly expected.

Also notice Aquamarine's twitter seems deleted. So our current source for dodgy numbers is gone. And with NPD neo gaffers bowing out right and left (Cosmic no longer has access, Creamsugar AFAIK hasn't posted in ages), this is the first month I dont see hope of numbers leaked on the horizon, but we will see. Perhaps now we will only know the winner.

Sales without numbers are meaningless. Although overall November sounds like a good month for both MS and Sony. I really expect to see some $199 bundles from both of them next BF

 

[DuckThor Evil]

How close to a 65" 4k TV do you need to be to even resolve the pixels over a 1080P set? I think the Pro + 1080P TV is a better paring.

It's not an obstacle, it's a path my friend. You can be close to screen, it's better that way. And no 1080P TV is not a better paring for the Pro. HDR support on 4K TVs alone makes them worth it regardless of the game's rendering resolution.

 

[goonergaz]

It's not an obstacle, it's a path my friend. You can be close to screen, it's better that way. And no 1080P TV is not a better paring for the Pro. HDR support on 4K TVs alone makes them worth it regardless of the game's rendering resolution.

Shame there won't be 1080p HDR sets - I'd be happy with that

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Shame there won't be 1080p HDR sets - I'd be happy with that

At this p0int given similar quality in other aspects, they likely wouldn't be much if any cheaper. Prices in general should still come down though.

 

[dobwal]

I used to be sucker for new, shiny and powerful. I'm still a sucker in that I will possibly line up to be among the first for a new console. But strangely, I am not sucker enough to want to invest in a PS4pro at this point, since my PS4 is more than adequate.

Yeah, the PS4 is more than "adequate" but a big part of that feeling is probably due to the lackluster marketing of the Pro.

When Apple throws an "S" on its iPhone, we all know that it means that it's new phone won't be as a great of a design and performance departure from its current phone. That doesn't stop Apple from pretending their next release isn't the best invention since slice bread. Apple pretty much markets every new phone the same way regardless if its a half step or a full step product.

Does anybody expect they're going to feel an extra level of excitement if the PS5 is marketed the same way as a Pro? It's like Sony and MS are creating a self fulfilling prophecy as they think these consoles will be limited to a sub segment of the user base, so they are making marketing decisions that help encourage that reality.

Both MS and Sony seem too focused on 4K. I mean honestly when has resolution alone been the defining metric of a console product? The 360/PS3 gen is the most obvious with it representing a move to HD but all the marketing revolved around visual improvements that were way more than simply PS2/Xbox level graphics at high definition. Plus, if the faster pace of iteration becomes a permanent part of the console space then what next? Because resolution jumps as a marketing metric isn't going to be available with every half step of a new product cycle.

 

[Goodtwin]

Once news of the enhancements Pro offers to games filters out, it's hard for me to imagine Pro not totally dominating sales. same with Scorpio. I expect MS/Sony to have to come to a reckoning pretty fast that there idea of the original models co existing in the marketplace will very possibly not be viable, as no one will want the underpowered models.

I mean, we have many big triple A releases barely hitting 720P or 900P at 25-30 FPS (or 50 ish) on the OG Xbox/PS4. The extra power is so sorely needed.

You would think so, but do not overestimate the consumer, they are easily confused. I am all but certain your average consumer will be a bit confused on what the difference is between the standard PS4 and the PS4 Pro is. My good friend, who is a PlayStation guy, was not clear on what the Pro really was, and after I explained it to him, he wasn't interested in upgrading anytime soon. I think these mid generation upgrades may do worse than expected. Smaller less expensive models are where the sales are at. I'm not saying there isn't a market for the enthusiast, but I doubt the Pro will eclipse the PS4 Slim in sales any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You would think so, but do not overestimate the consumer, they are easily confused. I am all but certain your average consumer will be a bit confused on what the difference is between the standard PS4 and the PS4 Pro is. My good friend, who is a PlayStation guy, was not clear on what the Pro really was, and after I explained it to him, he wasn't interested in upgrading anytime soon. I think these mid generation upgrades may do worse than expected. Smaller less expensive models are where the sales are at. I'm not saying there isn't a market for the enthusiast, but I doubt the Pro will eclipse the PS4 Slim in sales any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

Not easily confused, although I can see how the average Tech Forum poster could be easily confused by what drives consumer buying habits.

Your average consumer is going to be driven both by a desire for a product (either for themselves or as a gift to others) and a budget for said product. In terms of consoles, given 2 different units that can both access the same library of titles, the cheaper unit will be by far the most attractive unit for the vast majority of your average consumer. That is regardless of whether they know of the technical differences between the 2 units. Console A can play all the games that Console B can play. Console B is more powerful/better but also significantly more expensive. Console A is going to sell significantly better in all cases.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Just look at consumer electronics in general, whether it be TVs, Cell Phones, Microwave Ovens, Refridgerators, BluRay players, etc. the most feature rich and capable offering is never going to outsell the cheaper offerings. Consumer knowledge doesn't really change that. Even very well educated consumers will more often than not choose the cheaper offering as it long as it meets their needs and in the case of the more knowledgeable consumers also meets their expectations for reliability and build quality.

PS4 and PS4-P is the first time we see this sort of dynamic in the console space. Prior to this, things were complicated by the slightly different game libraries (PS3 compared to X360 or PS4 compared to XBO) as well as the extent to which brand loyalty exists (it exists just the extent of it is debatable).

We'll see something similar with the XBO-S and Project Scorpio when it launches with XBO-S being cheaper and easily outselling Project Scorpio.

Regards,
SB

 

[goonergaz]

At this p0int given similar quality in other aspects, they likely wouldn't be much if any cheaper. Prices in general should still come down though.

Yeah, I just think in 2 years it'll be worth the upgrade whereas if there was a reasonable stepping stone I'd go for it to enjoy the Pro a bit more than I currently can...I almost feel like I will need to replay a lot of games to fully appreciate them.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not easily confused,

I have to disagree there. We have average consumers not knowing Wii U is a new console. We have average consumers not knowing how to programme the VCR, or the right way to connect up the wires. They can't always be trusted to recognise USB, or to know which card slot on a labelled card reader the labelled SD Micro from their phone fits in. Not to mention the average consumer spouting PR spiel regards tech as if they understand what it means, so grabbing the most megapixels without any appreciation for the quality of those pixels thanks to the optics which aren't sumised into a single number for comparison. Arwin posted on this board recently a report categorising consumers by tech competence level.

You need clear messages to reach the average consumer. If you lack that, you can't expect said consumer to know what's what, and confusion can lead to inaction, which is what marketing is all about. PS3 improved sales once they ran the campaign 'it only does everything' to educate the consumers.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I have to disagree there. We have average consumers not knowing Wii U is a new console. We have average consumers not knowing how to programme the VCR, or the right way to connect up the wires. They can't always be trusted to recognise USB, or to know which card slot on a labelled card reader the labelled SD Micro from their phone fits in. Not to mention the average consumer spouting PR spiel regards tech as if they understand what it means, so grabbing the most megapixels without any appreciation for the quality of those pixels thanks to the optics which aren't sumised into a single number for comparison. Arwin posted on this board recently a report categorising consumers by tech competence level.

You need clear messages to reach the average consumer. If you lack that, you can't expect said consumer to know what's what, and confusion can lead to inaction, which is what marketing is all about. PS3 improved sales once they ran the campaign 'it only does everything' to educate the consumers.

I'm not saying that all consumers are not easily confused. But that that the generalization of easily confused consumers doesn't necessarily fit. As even when the consumer is extremely well informed, they often do not buy the more technically capable (better) and more expensive offering.

Using myself as an example I recently went for a GTX 1070 despite it being quite obviously inferior to the GTX 1080. It was also far closer to my actual budget.

When I bought an automobile back in 2012, I bought a cheaper more affordable vehicle instead of one that was better but more expensive. That was after spending multiple months carefully studying the competition and weighing the cost versus the benefit.

I do the same thing whenever I go grocery shopping. And that's for items with a difference in cost of less than 1 USD. Your "average" consumer does this almost all the time unless it's something that is within their hobby niche for lack of a better description. Audiophiles will spend much more than non-audiophiles on audio equipment, for example. People on technical forums such as this will generally be more willing to spend a premium for a console than your average consumer because it's their "niche" thing. It matters to them on some level. For your average consumer regardless of whether they know "exactly" how much more powerful the PS4-P is than the PS4, the PS4-P will never be something they'd seriously consider. But I'd be willing to bet that a significantly large number of PS4 buyers know that the PS4-P is the more powerful/better of the two (obviously not to the Nth degree like people on this forum) but don't seriously consider it because it's not worth the additional price.

These are things everyday people do all the time. How knowledgeable (or not) they are about a product rarely has as much significance as whether it does what they want it to do within their budget. IE - the PS4 can play every title that the PS4-P can play. The fact that the PS4-P can potentially run them better in some respect has little to no bearing for the average consumer. More knowledge doesn't change that, assuming the consumer was not knowledgeable about it in the first place. An assumption that one shouldn't automatically be making of anyone that purchases a PS4 (slim or fat) instead of a PS4-P.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm not saying that all consumers are not easily confused. But that that the generalization of easily confused consumers doesn't necessarily fit. As even when the consumer is extremely well informed, they often do not buy the more technically capable (better) and more expensive offering.

I wasn't arguing against your argument, which is one I subscribe to - it's not consumer confusion leading to a lack of PS4Pro sales. Just countering that specific point because I don't believe you can rely on the general populace to make the smart choice. eg. Brexit. The British people voted on a huge decision for their nation based on something they didn't really understand, and post vote you have confused people asking what's going to happen and what exactly they voted for. Or phishing emails that aren't accurate but which people treat as real because, like any con, they've confused into believing it because they can't process the evidence to the contrary.

Given a no-brainer choice in value, the consumer can still be swayed to invest in the lower value option. It's what started branding in the first place - the free market was confusing as you never knew what you were going to get, which is where brands offered a dependable choice and eliminated the confusion, becoming popular because they got rid of the need to make difficult, time consuming choices. And since their invention, marketing has developed to create brands not based on the intrinsic technical qualities but which sell anyway.

 

[mrcorbo]

Yeah, I just think in 2 years it'll be worth the upgrade whereas if there was a reasonable stepping stone I'd go for it to enjoy the Pro a bit more than I currently can...I almost feel like I will need to replay a lot of games to fully appreciate them.

As a PC gamer, I can say the desire to replay a game due to better graphics being available isn't generally a thing. While I do sometimes load up a game post-upgrade to see what it looks like this usually is just a quick session and then the game gets put away again. Any game I would consider playing through again is a game I'd want to play again anyway, better graphics or not.