I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Maybe they would have switched back but I doubt the majority would have. If a company screws up a product line royal then an opportunity is created. Doesn't matter whether it is console manufacturers, game software (endless examples of this from the past 4 years alone), vehicles or a sports league. MLB had to have problems in the US before the NFL was able to take over. Even after the problems are fixed I'm not sure people will go back without another major screw up by their existing manufacturer.
All purpose Sales and Sales Rumors and Anecdotes [2016 Edition]
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I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Maybe they would have switched back but I doubt the majority would have. If a company screws up a product line royal then an opportunity is created. Doesn't matter whether it is console manufacturers, game software (endless examples of this from the past 4 years alone), vehicles or a sports league. MLB had to have problems in the US before the NFL was able to take over. Even after the problems are fixed I'm not sure people will go back without another major screw up by their existing manufacturer.
Images of a console without the rest of their messaging & content is not enough to make any conclusion on how they will compete. You're grasping at straws just to make them bad?
Tommy McClain
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Lol, sorry, that ship has sailed, for me anyway. I only need one console these days.
Edit, to keep more relevant to thread:
I like this new design tho, looks pretty great. Internal PSU? Great. Like it should be. I also like color white.
@Karamazov Xbox 0.6?
GrimThorne
Newcomer
I admit that my comment had a blend of sarcasm but also real curiosity. I've been hearing for close to year now that more gamers would adopt the Xbox One if it were smaller and didn't have a large power supply. They're about to get what they've been asking for.
The lead Sony has is quite substantial, they're about to secure 65% marketshare. Is it realistic to believe that a Slim is going to have an impact on sales?
Oh Rangers... you really do need to get out a bit more if you think this forum and the people who post on it are in any way representative of the market or PlayStations consumers...
The biggest thing I, myself, a single and loyal PlayStation (since 1997) is concerned about the prospect of a 6 TF (or 4) console is the noise it will make. If it sounds anything like the PS3 used to - that being a vacuum-cleaner - I'm really not that looking forward to it. If anthing Xbox One and PS4 has shown, is that even a substantial GPU difference of nearly 50% isn't enough to make a meaningful difference visually. Not because the difference isn't there on paper, but because developers tend to cater to the weakest link. If anything, the point that these .5 console-upgrades will run games that are designed to run on both the PS4 and the Xbox One and I'm assuming the difference in computing power will make for an even smaller real world difference. You'll get better hardware on paper with a lot less noise with it, that's my guess. More consistent framerates though, which is why I might get it (the PS upgraded one) if it can run cool enough.
Anyway, the bulk of those 40 million PS4 users outthere isn't by people like us who read game and technology forums on a daily basis. They are by people who like games, but buy the one that is the better package. That also includes the platform your friends play on, the platform which ecosystem you've already invested in. Assuming both next upgraded consoles deliver similar graphics that isn't a quantum leap beyond the other, I expect the userbase sizes to be comparable to what we already have now on the PS4 and Xbox One. I doubt they'll cause any market share shifts, even if the Neo ends up being underpowered to the Scorpio.
D
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Really good post, Phil. I think it's easy for those of us who make time for gaming on a regular basis (daily, or at least multiple times a week) to forget that we are the absolute fringe. We may be average people but we're not average gamers and this should be apparent by looking at data like average attach rates of games for consoles which, as I posted in another thread, feel crazy low to me. What you've only bought 5.4 games? Are you f***ing kidding?
You can also look at subscriber rates of mega forums like GAF which has a mere 170k members at the moment. GAF is, I believe, the biggest English-speaking gaming forum on the planet yet 170k is 0.2% of the 60 million PS4/XBO owners, let alone PC-only gamers.
In statistical terms, all of the regular posters here are a rounding error.
You can also look at subscriber rates of mega forums like GAF which has a mere 170k members at the moment. GAF is, I believe, the biggest English-speaking gaming forum on the planet yet 170k is 0.2% of the 60 million PS4/XBO owners, let alone PC-only gamers.
In statistical terms, all of the regular posters here are a rounding error.
Oh Rangers... you really do need to get out a bit more if you think this forum and the people who post on it are in any way representative of the market or PlayStations consumers...
Yes, silly me
I missed all those million (billions?) of posts the last few year about "OMGOSH LOOK AT THS PLAYSTATON EXCLUSIVES GRAPHIOCS!!!" too. Everywhere on the internet, such minor hole in the wall places as www.youtube.com. I had my head buried in some sand.
You may be different, and fine with Neo being 50% less powerful than Xbox Scorpio (somehow not sure I believe it though). that's cool. I didn't like One being 50% less powerful than PS4, speaking for myself..
With these clearance sales on old model XBO's plus it being a slow month, then the slim hitting, PLUS I almost forgot a recent "official" drop to 299, I'd think XBO could take a NPD month in here somewhere. We will see though, they haven't been able to in a while (although April was close).
Some pretty great XBO deals right now, 1TB Hybrid HDD+Elite controller Elite for 349, 1TB +Ori+Gears+Rare Replay 299 at Wal Mart, 1TB bundles 299 everywhere, $279 for 500GB SKU's, etc.
BTW I will update my XBO vs 360 NPD charts soon. But I looked it over and was surprised, 360 is still not gaining much ground, just a few tens of thousands this year. But as always, 360 took off around 2009-10. XBO may be extinct by then as may be the concept of generations...
Some pretty great XBO deals right now, 1TB Hybrid HDD+Elite controller Elite for 349, 1TB +Ori+Gears+Rare Replay 299 at Wal Mart, 1TB bundles 299 everywhere, $279 for 500GB SKU's, etc.
BTW I will update my XBO vs 360 NPD charts soon. But I looked it over and was surprised, 360 is still not gaining much ground, just a few tens of thousands this year. But as always, 360 took off around 2009-10. XBO may be extinct by then as may be the concept of generations...
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Billy Idol
Legend
Fo me power matters. I praise MS and Scorpio now.
Hint: don't mess with console owners, we are like a leaf in the wind
Hint: don't mess with console owners, we are like a leaf in the wind
I appreciate Rangers posting sales figures, often this topic would be completely dead if he wasn't keeping the conversation going. We all have our biases but he's pretty good about separating facts from analysis.
And to his point about power I do think it matters, as does cost. IMO in the case of XB1 too much of the cost was allocated to features gamers didn't feel warranted that price at the expense of graphics, I think it could have been completely different if a good percentage of the Kinect budget had been allocated to GPU for example or if they had targeted enough GPU to make sure most titles were running at 1080P. What I am less certain about however is if price or power was more important to consumers. If NEO and Scorpio were launching closer to each other we might have been able to gain some insight as NEO is likely to be cheaper and we know it will be less powerful.
And to his point about power I do think it matters, as does cost. IMO in the case of XB1 too much of the cost was allocated to features gamers didn't feel warranted that price at the expense of graphics, I think it could have been completely different if a good percentage of the Kinect budget had been allocated to GPU for example or if they had targeted enough GPU to make sure most titles were running at 1080P. What I am less certain about however is if price or power was more important to consumers. If NEO and Scorpio were launching closer to each other we might have been able to gain some insight as NEO is likely to be cheaper and we know it will be less powerful.
What I think will impact the sales balance of mid-gen, no particular order:
- Retail price, value proposition
- Console specs differences (for those who care about and understand specs)
- Pervasive rumors of hidden power to be unlocked (mrxmedia blog, n4g, and mrfox upcoming rumor mongering)
- Real visual differences (for those who look at side-by-side comparisons, DF analysis)
- Launch timing (headstart)
- First party studios reputation and expected games (personal must-have titles, franchise series)
- Everything VR: games support, headset price and quality, launch timing
- Brand recognition (influencing first time buyers)
- Brand loyalty (gamers upgrading will not switch brand)
- Brand trust (messaging, honesty, based on brand history)
- Media influence for all of the above
Anything I missed? Just put "points" and "weight" to all of those and crunch numbers based on your own biases and knowledge on the history of game consoles.
- Retail price, value proposition
- Console specs differences (for those who care about and understand specs)
- Pervasive rumors of hidden power to be unlocked (mrxmedia blog, n4g, and mrfox upcoming rumor mongering)
- Real visual differences (for those who look at side-by-side comparisons, DF analysis)
- Launch timing (headstart)
- First party studios reputation and expected games (personal must-have titles, franchise series)
- Everything VR: games support, headset price and quality, launch timing
- Brand recognition (influencing first time buyers)
- Brand loyalty (gamers upgrading will not switch brand)
- Brand trust (messaging, honesty, based on brand history)
- Media influence for all of the above
Anything I missed? Just put "points" and "weight" to all of those and crunch numbers based on your own biases and knowledge on the history of game consoles.
NPD will finally be including some numbers for Digital Downloads starting with their June 2016 results. [ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/07/digital-game-sales-data-just-got-a-little-less-opaque/ ]
The tasty tidbits:
Today, NPD announced an important step towards improving its data. Starting with its June report (to be released on July 21), NPD data will include digital sales reported directly from some of the industry's biggest publishers. Activison Blizzard, Bandai Namco, Capcom, Electronic Arts, Square Enix, Take-Two Interactive, and Warner Bros. Interactive will now tell NPD how many games they're selling on Xbox Live, PSN, and Steam every month.
Still a long way to go
While it's definitely a step in the right direction, NPD's digital sales reporting is still far from perfect. For one, it's missing data from a lot of major companies, from console makers Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft to big publishers like Ubisoft, Capcom, and Sega. The hundreds of downloadable games released each month by independent publishers also aren't included in NPD's reports. Online marketplaces like Nintendo's eShop, EA's Origin, Blizzard's Battle.net, and Good Old Games won't be included in NPD's numbers, either. Neither will game purchases that are made at retailers but redeemed online.
Callahan says NPD is "actively engaged in talking to non-participants" to get them on board and fix this problem. Still, he says, the major publishers that have joined so far give NPD "a solid representation of what's going on digitally." Though Callahan acknowledges that there's "room to grow," he says the current product is a "significant change from what we have so far... I focus less on the holes and more on 'Look at what we have!'"
...
However, the publicly reported Top 10 sellers list will now be ranked by total revenue, rather than unit sales. That should help the reported performance of games sold at a premium price and games sold in pricey collector's editions.
The tasty tidbits:
Today, NPD announced an important step towards improving its data. Starting with its June report (to be released on July 21), NPD data will include digital sales reported directly from some of the industry's biggest publishers. Activison Blizzard, Bandai Namco, Capcom, Electronic Arts, Square Enix, Take-Two Interactive, and Warner Bros. Interactive will now tell NPD how many games they're selling on Xbox Live, PSN, and Steam every month.
Still a long way to go
While it's definitely a step in the right direction, NPD's digital sales reporting is still far from perfect. For one, it's missing data from a lot of major companies, from console makers Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft to big publishers like Ubisoft, Capcom, and Sega. The hundreds of downloadable games released each month by independent publishers also aren't included in NPD's reports. Online marketplaces like Nintendo's eShop, EA's Origin, Blizzard's Battle.net, and Good Old Games won't be included in NPD's numbers, either. Neither will game purchases that are made at retailers but redeemed online.
Callahan says NPD is "actively engaged in talking to non-participants" to get them on board and fix this problem. Still, he says, the major publishers that have joined so far give NPD "a solid representation of what's going on digitally." Though Callahan acknowledges that there's "room to grow," he says the current product is a "significant change from what we have so far... I focus less on the holes and more on 'Look at what we have!'"
...
However, the publicly reported Top 10 sellers list will now be ranked by total revenue, rather than unit sales. That should help the reported performance of games sold at a premium price and games sold in pricey collector's editions.
Ubisoft results are out for the 1st Q, so are MS and Nintendo's, of course MS info are totally worthless now. Anyway, the fun part of Ubisoft's results for me (apparently they alsdo did gangbusters digital growth, yadda yadda)
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-US/company/investor_center/earnings_sales.aspx
I wonder why North America and XBO had big jumps YoY? No idea and I think their 1st Q was relatively bereft of releases so, just anomalies of small sample size. The only thing I can think offhand to be driving their sales this Q would be The Division, but who knows.
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-US/company/investor_center/earnings_sales.aspx
I wonder why North America and XBO had big jumps YoY? No idea and I think their 1st Q was relatively bereft of releases so, just anomalies of small sample size. The only thing I can think offhand to be driving their sales this Q would be The Division, but who knows.
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