All purpose Sales and Sales Rumors and Anecdotes [2016 Edition]

[Rangers]

yea you got me there

but it was also more powerful. So could say it was because it was more powerful that it sold so well. More powerful and cheaper, good combination.

when Kinect was unbundled its been cheaper since and only lead sales a couple times when it was extremely cheaper.

Just saying many reasons why previous generations aren't easily comparable as they used to be. I believe its a few reasons for the position their in.If they went as cheap as possible(not just sales) with the current hardware no guarantee it would outsell ps4.

That was at launch, when in the USA XBO launched at 499 only with Kinect, vs more powerful 399 PS4. That was a disaster, and within months MS unbundled Kinect. Most of the generation XBO has been cheaper.

 

[Rangers]

True enough and I'm sure that for the majority of console buyers, the decision of which console to buy is a combination of a number of factors - price, friends, availability, games, features, performance etc. eastman seemed to be of the view that a higher performance Xbox would be Microsoft's fait accompli whereas my view is that commercial success of past consoles does not support this.

If you look back at past console generations, particularly the PlayStation era (1996 on), there is a consistent correlation on price and commercial success but not performance. I'm sure performance is very important for some but sales do not support that being a sole dictating feature upon which success is guaranteed.

Personally I would be interested in an expensive ($1,000) high performance console.

Well, one evidence is the overwhelming desire of Playstation fans for the Playstation Neo to remain more powerful than XBO Scorpio (there are literally threads dedicated to what Sony can do to upgrade Neo both here and Neogaf, based on a flimsy rumor that Scorpio is 6 TF) https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...uld-sony-do-next-spawn-oh-and-nintendo.57832/ . Or how about all the Xbots who believed the XBO had hidden power. Or how about the cycle we go through with every Nintendo system where it's fans refuse it believe it will lack grunt compared to it's opponents.

My long stated belief of course is power is the most important thing in core gaming, and there's no close 2nd place. Now, I think you can reach a gray area if the boxes are close enough. XBO apparently failed to appropriately reach that level.

Why would joe average chose a XBO when PS4 is delivering all the same 3rd party games, but he knows the PS4 is delivering them almost all at 1080P where XBO is struggling to hit that? It's a very simple and powerful equation. Of course, there are reasons, and that's why XBO doesn't sell zero.

Aldo, think of all the mini scandals that occur each and every time we find out the XBo version of a multiplat is lacking. This is something that never goes away. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

There's doubtless various factors though. Price, launch date, previous company dominance, third party support (The latter two why PS2 "beat" Xbox) but none as big as power IMO.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well, one evidence is the overwhelming desire of Playstation fans for the Playstation Neo to remain more powerful than XBO Scorpio (there are literally threads dedicated to what Sony can do to upgrade Neo both here and Neogaf, based on a flimsy rumor that Scorpio is 6 TF)

Some PlayStations, sure. Consoles are budget gaming devices so I find it doubtful that many console owners are chasing performance. And I'd wager even less care about relative power to something else. The rabid fanboys who really care and have angst about this crap are in the minority. A vocal minority but still a minority.

 

[AlNom]

Are fans of nickelback considered angsty too

 

[DrJay24]

This isn't a new console cycle, its a continuation of the current one. The race is over, XB1.5 can be 10TB, no one will care by then and the cost will have to reflect that power. MS is chasing a dead dream. Sony is trying to make VR work better, what is MS doing, having a spec contest?

 

[djskribbles]

Power matters only to a small fraction of the home console userbase. It matters to the people who read forums like this or NeoGAF, which is a smaller percentage than some of you may think.

The PS4 didn't significantly outsell the XB1 because it was more 'powerful', it outsold the XB1 because Sony has the worldwide brand appeal/presence that MS lacks. MS made strong strides in improving their image with the X360, but failed with their launch of the XB1. Had MS launched the XB1 without Kinect at 399 or less and focused more on gaming rather than TV, I think things would look quite different now. I mean I still think that the PS4 would have been ahead, but it would have been a much closer race.

 

[Jay]

or it's a smaller more vocal minority on forums that shout power isn't that important to general public.
I see that being said in equal amount.

do the general public know one game is 1080 and other is 900? Probably not, and they're even less likely to be able to tell the difference.

but they don't go into shop and flip a coin, they are informed to some level, and they know ps4 is more popular and usually the first reason given to them why is that it's more powerful.
(hence games play better etc)

 

[goonergaz]

That was at launch, when in the USA XBO launched at 499 only with Kinect, vs more powerful 399 PS4. That was a disaster, and within months MS unbundled Kinect. Most of the generation XBO has been cheaper.

Well it took them around 6 months to drop Kinect and get the same price as PS4 then later it dropped below PS4 but it was too little too late, they needed to do it straight away.

Thinking of the whole price thing, Dreamcast and Gamecube were both cheaper but lost out to PS2.

 

[function]

Price is only one factor. Power, catalogue, brand perception, peer groups etc are other.

MS had a lot going for them at the end of the 360 generation: price, power, catalogue, brand perception, online service perception, friends lists etc were all strong for them.

Hoo boy they blew it this time though. It's recent enough that they can play back to the 360 to some extent though, particularly if they position Scorpio as being to Neo what 360 was to PS3/PS3.

 

[steveOrino]

Aldo, think of all the mini scandals that occur each and every time we find out the XBo version of a multiplat is lacking. This is something that never goes away. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

9 out of 10 times the xbox 360 version of a console multi-platform game was going to be better on a technical level and yet it wasn't a huge deal to a vast majority of consumers compared to the price and features of both consoles (especially NA).

Most telling is that "Kinect" doesn't seem to be mentioned much anymore in assessments about the 2 consoles. It is after all, the sole reason why there is a performance difference to begin with. Kinect was the major cornerstone of the X1 and what was suppose to ultimately set it apart from everything else. I would say its absence is far more damning to the position of the console then system power could ever be. Consumers saw very very early that MS couldn't fix the fundamental flaws with the technology and now its a footnote in gaming history.

Ultimately a disastrous re-branding, poor communication and putting all eggs into the Kinect basket is ultimately why the X1 is where it is currently. If Kinect replaced the standard joypad and became the next big thing I doubt we would be talking about system power.

 

[Jay]

If Kinect replaced the standard joypad and became the next big thing I doubt we would be talking about system power.

yet it never, so we are. (maybe in the future, power may not be as important, maybe it becomes more important, things change)

I find a lot of the historical evidence to be like saying music stores wouldn't close because everyone likes music and just look at the history, same with movies and blockbusters/film stores etc. The environment changed regardless of history, and sometimes it doesn't have a direct historical equivalent context.
the last generation was so long a lot changed during it, which may not have had such a big impact to that gen due to the fact the consoles were already established. Or the impact was different due to them being established.

I think people don't realise just how much had changed during the start to the end of the previous generation.

edit : Worth saying I'm not just talking about power, real life friends compared to digital, social media, importance of first party exclusives compared to multi plat, ecosystems, clinical break downs of games and deference's of versions, etc

 

[function]

Kinect was never going to replace the standard controller though, at least for games. For dash Kinect was supposed to replace it (mixed bag in terms of how well that went) but for games Kinect could only ever supplement the traditional controller. This was clear since the early days of Kinect v1.

X1 controller is enhanced over the 360 pad, and Kinect 2 would have been a fine device for supplementary and alternative inputs (e.g. speech, emotional state, party game interplay). But no attempt was made to make good on what the device was/is optimal for.

Kinect has suffered from the "botch and bail" that MS are becoming known for. I would love to have made prototype games for Kinect+pad. It would have been the most fun ever.

 

[Michellstar]

And to complement this, Kinect was not responsible for the power difference, the BOM without Kinect was almost a copycat between orbis and durango

 

[Silent_Buddha]

9 out of 10 times the xbox 360 version of a console multi-platform game was going to be better on a technical level and yet it wasn't a huge deal to a vast majority of consumers compared to the price and features of both consoles (especially NA).

Yup, despite the X360 generally offering a superior graphical experience in multiplatform games, and being cheaper, and offering more user features (universal voice chat for instance) the PS3 was able to hang around.

Platform loyalty means significantly more in the console space than in many other electronics areas. While there will be some consumers that will jump from platform to platform, I'd be willing to bet that most PS/PS2 users who jumped to X360 have gone back to the PlayStation brand. And all of the ones that never jumped to X360 in the first place won't jump to an Xbox no matter how powerful it is or how many exclusives it has.

In other words, no matter how powerful, cheap, or compelling a console Microsoft produces, it's unlikely they will ever be able to get much more than 50% of the combined Xbox/PlayStation market. Sorry Nintendo for ignoring you.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silenti]

It's strange. All the positions about power/ brand/ exclusives/ online friends/ etc and no mention of something that you may actually be able to attach to major shifts in a given industry. Even if MS comes out with a more powerful console at the same price point as a Neo (just go with the 4.3 vs 6.x, it's fine for this argument) that might not be enough to make any difference. Why? It would require, to my thinking, a major screw-up on the leaders part (Sony). A mistake Sony made at the start of last gen. That may be a prerequisite for any major shift in purchasing decisions. Just a thought.

 

[Globalisateur]

Yup, despite the X360 generally offering a superior graphical experience in multiplatform games, and being cheaper, and offering more user features (universal voice chat for instance) the PS3 was able to hang around.

Platform loyalty means significantly more in the console space than in many other electronics areas. While there will be some consumers that will jump from platform to platform, I'd be willing to bet that most PS/PS2 users who jumped to X360 have gone back to the PlayStation brand. And all of the ones that never jumped to X360 in the first place won't jump to an Xbox no matter how powerful it is or how many exclusives it has.

In other words, no matter how powerful, cheap, or compelling a console Microsoft produces, it's unlikely they will ever be able to get much more than 50% of the combined Xbox/PlayStation market. Sorry Nintendo for ignoring you.

Regards,
SB

But what does brand loyalty really mean? For me it's being loyal to exclusives franchises: games. Which is a very different loyalty than being loyal to a brand of TVs. That's really what Xbox 'brand' lacks. Sorely. Games. 2 high quality games aren't nearly enough. You need much more variety to incite people into buying your hardware.

People jump back to Playstation to play games only available on Playstation and that fact that it has games for everybody. From the most obscure niche japanese game to AAA western superheroes shooters to end of the world story driven stealth / shooter.

 

[chris1515]

Brand perception is very important Sony sold more PS3 than 360 in continental Europe with a 600 euros console launching 15 months later...

Out of US and UK Microsoft problem is the Sony Playstation brand...

It will be better if the PS4 Neo is competitive with Scorpio but it is only a part of the equation.

 

[Michellstar]

Brand perception is very important Sony sold more PS3 than 360 in continental Europe with a 600 euros console launching 15 months later...

Out of US and UK Microsoft problem is the Sony Playstation brand...

It will be better if the PS4 Neo is competitive with Scorpio but it is only a part of the equation.

Yes, that´s it

And going forward, it´s gonna be really hard to brake current path if sony takes the iterative model.
When Scorpio lands, there´ll be more than 60 million combined Sony consoles, they can drop OPS4 and make Neo the cheap entry point, and in 2019/20 "rinse and repeat"

Ms probably will integrate W10 and Xbox, to present going forward better numbers (combined installed base), so Scorpio must run pc executables, if not it´s DOA

Well, I believe belongs more to the What to do next thread lol

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It's strange. All the positions about power/ brand/ exclusives/ online friends/ etc and no mention of something that you may actually be able to attach to major shifts in a given industry. Even if MS comes out with a more powerful console at the same price point as a Neo (just go with the 4.3 vs 6.x, it's fine for this argument) that might not be enough to make any difference. Why? It would require, to my thinking, a major screw-up on the leaders part (Sony). A mistake Sony made at the start of last gen. That may be a prerequisite for any major shift in purchasing decisions. Just a thought.

Yup. The only reason Xbox 360 was able to basically tie PS3 was because of how Sony messed up the PS3 launch. For XBO/PS4 it was more about Sony not messing up than Microsoft messing up. Had both of them launched with a perfect launch campaign and relatively similar specifications there would still have been a migration of people from Xbox to PlayStation as those former PlayStation users on X360 went back to the console they always wanted to stay with but which they switched to due to cost, launch window, and superior graphics (most noticeable in the first 2-3 years of the generation) in multiplatform games.

Microsoft botching their launch just accelerated that switch back to their brand of preference as well as making the gap larger than it had to be. If they hadn't botched the launch, I think they'd have a chance at a 60:40 (1.5:1) split with Sony. With that botched launch, messaging, and now dropping many of the things from launch. I think they'll be lucky to end the generation with a 70:30 (2.3:1) split and might be as bad as a 80:20 (4:1) split.

BTW - I'm including in the botched launch things like an over-emphasis on F2P (Yay, Phil Harrison). F2P done well can be amazing (Warframe) but you don't bank the future of the platform in your territory on F2P. Fable (an Xbox cornerstone franchise) turning F2P rather than a traditional Fable 4 (what the fans actually wanted) was a huge mistake that likely cost them some sales, for instance.

Regards,
SB

 

[GrimThorne]

So everyone is going to run out and buy Xbox One consoles now because of 40% smaller and internal power supply...................right?

So this is going to be the great game changer that competes against the PS4, which is on pace to have nearly 65% of the console industry's marketshare by year's end.......................right?