[360, PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV

[Jesus2006]

Funny but I didn't compare it to a 12xDVD in my post. The transfer speed of BR is extremely low relative to it's available space.

Well the BR "advantage" obviously relates to PS3's BR drive so there is a comparision, otherwise it's not an "advantage" (compared to what?).

And what about the rest of your post, low memory bandwidth? Does a BR drive have low memory bandwidht?

Anyways, since we have the same memory footprint to fill (512MB) the transfer speed in relation to the available space is not a disadvantage.

 

[woundingchaney]

...compared to a DVD9 (12x DVD) avg. (=constant for BR) transfer speeds are actually better for a 2x BR drive, but that's already been discussed alot.

And what about low memory bandwidth?

Are you sure??


Average transfer speed isnt necessarily the case as most often the larger files are stored along the outside portion of the disk where the speed is the greatest. Taking average speed in the equation may not give the ture answer (I take it we are talking about games here).

Even then would average transfer of 2xBR speed beat 12xdvd?? Im not really sure but for game the PS3 transfer at 9MB (or at least thats what most referrences I have heard say). Now 12xdvd reads at 8.2-16.5 depending on the space of the disk since the majority of data on a disk is held on the outer rings an average most likely wouldnt give the right number. I believe that for dual layer disks the speed is slightly slower but nothing that suggest a slower speed than the BR PS3 drive. Ideally transfer speeds are 70-80 percent of utopian figures.

I may be wrong here, but most every time I have seen the scenario it breaks down much like this.
This is kind of moot anyways with the popular use of the standard hdd in the PS3 though (such as the optional installs). Although I guess coding to recognize an optional hdd wouldnt be much of an issue either or since the hdd userbase for the 360 is so high I dont see a problem with making the game an hdd only game (other than of course the 5% of consumers going "What the hell??" LOL).

--I would like to know about the memory bandwith as well. Are we doing to whole 360 vs PS3 issues again??

 

[Jesus2006]

I believe that for dual layer disks the speed is slightly slower but nothing that suggest a slower speed than the BR PS3 drive. Ideally transfer speeds are 70-80 percent of utopian figures.

OT, but access times also go up about 25% when using DVD9.

The avg transfer speed for some 12xDVD drives with DVD9 is benchmarked here (and go down to 6,5MB/s, depending on the drive).

Since i suppose that most future games will be on DVD9s these numbers might become very relevant soon.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

OT, but access time also go down about 25% when using DVD9.

The avg transfer speed for some 12xDVD drives with DVD9 are benchmarked here (and go down to 6,5MB/s, depending on the drive).

Since i suppose that most future games will be on DVD9s these numbers become very relevant soon.

Um, forgive me if im wrong, but if those are benchmarking 12x DVD drives, most of them are actually faster than a 2x bluray

 

[Jesus2006]

Um, forgive me if im wrong, but if those are benchmarking 12x DVD drives, most of them are actually faster than a 2x bluray

Only check the blue ones
(enuff OT)

 

[woundingchaney]

OT, but access times also go up about 25% when using DVD9.

The avg transfer speed for some 12xDVD drives with DVD9 is benchmarked here (and go down to 6,5MB/s, depending on the drive).

Since i suppose that most future games will be on DVD9s these numbers might become very relevant soon.

Isnt that article from 2001?? Would it be feasible to beleive that the tech is considerably more reliable now and offering better benchmarks. Also if those are 12x dvd arent they better than the constant 9MB from BR (also is there a BR benchmark on the PS3 as realworld results are most likely different than specs).

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well the BR "advantage" obviously relates to PS3's BR drive so there is a comparision, otherwise it's not an "advantage" (compared to what?).

And what about the rest of your post, low memory bandwidth? Does a BR drive have low memory bandwidht?

Anyways, since we have the same memory footprint to fill (512MB) the transfer speed in relation to the available space is not a disadvantage.

The question is factors that curb BR's effectiveness, it has nothing to do with it's comparison to 360.

- Slow transfer/seek speeds
- Low memory bandwidth for RSX (128bit bus)
- Low ram (only 224mb of available VRAM)

All these factors limit the impact BR can actually have on the on screen visuals, though they don't effect the impact BR can have on the overall length of a game.

 

[StefanS]

This thread is about GTA IV, not about the good ol' BR vs DVD discussion we've had in about million threads by now. If you want to talk about that feel free to dig up an old one...

 

[cthellis42]

This thread is about GTA IV, not about the good ol' BR vs DVD discussion we've had in about million threads by now. If you want to talk about that feel free to dig up an old one...

It's not nice to be so sarcastic!

By my count, it's only been in 128,457 threads. Even with rounding, that's nowhere NEAR a million!

 

[infinity4]

It's not nice to be so sarcastic!

By my count, it's only been in 128,457 threads. Even with rounding, that's nowhere NEAR a million!

you mean posts not threads???

so, taking disc space in relation to the game, how much procedural synthesis can the game use with limited textures??? is it tech difficult to use this generation???

 

[woundingchaney]

This thread is about GTA IV, not about the good ol' BR vs DVD discussion we've had in about million threads by now. If you want to talk about that feel free to dig up an old one...

Sorry

But back to the 360 being the lead platform. There has been issues with flying in other sandbox titles on the 360 (mainly dev comments about Saints Row) and a lack of flying in available sandbox titles (well ok not Just Cause but does that count LOL). This would seemingly suggest that flying is out of the question on the game or the 360 version unless the game goes mandatory hdd. This may alienate many past GTA players as flying has usually played a factor in most of the games.

Any thoughts??

 

[woundingchaney]

you mean posts not threads???

so, taking disc space in relation to the game, how much procedural synthesis can the game use with limited textures??? is it tech difficult to use this generation???

I think even on BR discs the textures are limited in a game, its not as if disk size is the only thing that limits this.

Although procedural synthesis is a good question. Is there anything to suggest this is being used in GTA4 as it is an often talked about tech but rarely do we ever see it used.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Only check the blue ones
(enuff OT)

Um...

Do you know how fast 2x Bluray is?

Its 72mbps = 9 mb\s.

Two 12x DVD drives actually have 9,8 and 10 mb\s as average speeds. In 2001. On unmastered discs.

You are familiar with mastered disc's right? Developers put the big files you need the most, on the outer rim, to reduce load times.

Combine this with lower seek speeds, and i very much doubt that a 2x Bluray drive is in any way significantly faster than a 12x DVD drive.

 

[rusty]

Sorry

But back to the 360 being the lead platform. There has been issues with flying in other sandbox titles on the 360 (mainly dev comments about Saints Row) and a lack of flying in available sandbox titles (well ok not Just Cause but does that count LOL). This would seemingly suggest that flying is out of the question on the game or the 360 version unless the game goes mandatory hdd. This may alienate many past GTA players as flying has usually played a factor in most of the games.

Any thoughts??

a) The only time I have ever heard such an issue raised is from the Saint's row Devs...

b) As you point out, Just Cause managed it just fine. Also, Crackdown might as well be considered to have flying given the building top to building top jumping and the incredible heights you can reach while doing it

c) The PS2 managed to have flying in GTA, and that had no hard drive....


I don't see any reason to assume that flying wouldn't be available in GTA IV.

 

[woundingchaney]

a) The only time I have ever heard such an issue raised is from the Saint's row Devs...

b) As you point out, Just Cause managed it just fine. Also, Crackdown might as well be considered to have flying given the building top to building top jumping and the incredible heights you can reach while doing it

c) The PS2 managed to have flying in GTA, and that had no hard drive....


I don't see any reason to assume that flying wouldn't be available in GTA IV.

Well flying represents a continuous speed with a considerable amount of view distance above the city. It is possible that the dvd transfer speed cannot keep up with rate of information needed.

Just Cause is an upgraded PS2 title that really isnt a good comparison to what we should expect out of "next gen" sandbox visuals and Crackdown only had very limited jumping from high altitudes which is considerably different than flying above an entire city.

Although you may be right but we really havent seen this done on any of the 360 based sandbox titles or even heard of a title being done.

 

[scooby_dooby]

This would seemingly suggest that flying is out of the question on the game or the 360 version unless the game goes mandatory hdd.

Unless the developer decides to implement load screens between areas, or comes up with a better workaround than Saint's Row.

 

[homy]

Why is the issue of read speed raised up? Last time I heard PS3 Oblivion IV is significant faster comparing to 360s (even with hard disk caching is used in the 360s version).

 

[infinity4]

Why is the issue of read speed raised up? Last time I heard PS3 Oblivion IV is significant faster comparing to 360s (even with hard disk caching is used in the 360s version).

what was that article from Bethseda talking that they preferred 360 drive more to blu ray drive??? was that drive speed or something else...

 

[Crayon]

It's no doubt a big deal.

However, Microsoft seems to be under the impression taht the game is now exclusivly theirs!

And the same for some of their (..ahem...) more ardent supporters!

 

[scooby_dooby]

However, Microsoft seems to be under the impression taht the game is now exclusivly theirs!

Why do you say that?