[360, PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV

[Titanio]

They don't need to replace anything.

I agree with scooby that it takes a feather from Sony's cap, but it doesn't take it for themselves. It just neutralises this as one thing that might sell someone on a system, in and of itself. As part of a broader lineup on either system, it could still be obviously an attractive point.

 

[3roxor]

Good luck with that. Getaway the next GTA? I'd say Crackdown and/or All Points Bulletin are the leading candidates for that spot, being as they're made by the original creator of GTA.

wasn't it you who said the game GTA didn't matter to much because it only was a timed exclusive..?

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Good luck with that. Getaway the next GTA? I'd say Crackdown and/or All Points Bulletin are the leading candidates for that spot, being as they're made by the original creator of GTA.

IMO id say the Getaway was one of those example's of were the harware let the game down, the dev's were just to abititious with there idea's and the PS2 just could'nt cope. Those games with a smoother frame rate and camera will be mighty fine

 

[JasonLD]

It means more to Microsoft then Sony since it is no longer timed exclusive title for Sony...Since GTA is no longer deciding factor. But GTA will excite the market anyways so it doesn't hurt that much for Sony either...
No one thought GTA would be as big as it would be today ever since GTAIII arrived...so it is up to Sony or Microsoft to come up with next big thing to enable to them to take leadership in the market.

 

[rounin]

The #1 selling franchise of last generation is no longer the system seller it was? Wasn't the latest iteration of the series also the best selling? That doesn't jive with your analysis.

The 2 single biggest franchises last generation were GTA, and Halo, both available on 360. You're dreaming if you think Sony wasn't involved in this bidding war, they just lost.

But the fact is that Sony doesn't need GTA as much as it did before and hence it seems to me that it "not the system seller it once was" due to the factors that I mentioned. For instance, they now have a lot more games and franchises than they did at the start of the PS2 era that they can be confident in as well as maintaining some high-profile exclusives. For instance God of War). GT4 is one of the top sellers of the year. And when we look at sales, the numbers reflect this in a way ( http://www.npd.com/dynamic/releases/press_060117.html).

When I look at numbers, mentality, and the overall picture, thats what I see. Some can agree or disagree with my "analysis" (if you've been through real school, this isn't even close), but to each their own.

And by the way...again, please drop the strawman arguments (bad habit?). I never said Sony wasn't involved.

EDIT: Looking at the above, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to see it in this way by the way

 

[scooby_dooby]

wasn't it you who said the game GTA didn't matter to much because it only was a timed exclusive..?

Why would I say that?

 

[bRoNx]

Bottom line is one of Sony #1 system sellers is no longer a system seller, it's now a true cross platform game which is a HUGE win for MS. No longer wil XBOX owners have to wait months on end to play GTA while all their friends play it on playstation.

MS just plucked a very huge feather out of Sony's hat.

True. But how much did a game like GTA:SA affect the overall install base of PS2? Was it as much a system seller as GTA:LC and GTA:VC? I don't really know, but I'd at least like to see some proof as to why this title of "system seller" has been bestowed upon the GTA series. What I'm trying to say is that for me personally, GTA:SA didn't have that "whoa, GTA!!!" affect that the original did...

In any case, this is good news for X360. Moore and his team should be proud to have stolen big(?) chunk of SONY's cake...and then instead of eating it, have it tattooed on his arm!

Damn, Moore. You're good, but you're still a goof!

PS: I wonder how Bungie feel having to share the stage with GTA?

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

It means more to Microsoft then Sony since it is no longer timed exclusive title for Sony...Since GTA is no longer deciding factor. But GTA will excite the market anyways so it doesn't hurt that much for Sony either...
No one thought GTA would be as big as it would be today ever since GTAIII arrived...so it is up to Sony or Microsoft to come up with next big thing to enable to them to take leadership in the market.

Great post, but with Sony having FF and MGS4 Microsoft have there work cut out

 

[McDusty]

IMO id say the Getaway was one of those example's of were the harware let the game down, the dev's were just to abititious with there idea's and the PS2 just could'nt cope. Those games with a smoother frame rate and camera will be mighty fine

The Getaway was a mess. They never planned for it to have as much as it did. It was deleyed after GTA3 came out because they realised what they had was pants in comparison so they ended up bolting more on. The framerate was a mess and despite being a SCEE title didn't make best use of the PS2's resources. It also lacked some simple optimisations which could have helped its unimpressive framerate. One which springs to mind was that they drew the full player character (and any others) that were in your car.

 

[scooby_dooby]

But the fact is that Sony doesn't need GTA as much as it did before and hence it seems to me that it "not the system seller it once was" due to the factors that I mentioned. For instance, they now have a lot more games and franchises than they did at the start of the PS2 era that they can be confident in as well as maintaining some high-profile exclusives. For instance God of War). GT4 is one of the top sellers of the year. And when we look at sales, the numbers reflect this in a way ( http://www.npd.com/dynamic/releases/press_060117.html).

When I look at numbers, mentality, and the overall picture, thats what I see. Some can agree or disagree with my "analysis" (if you've been through real school, this isn't even close), but to each their own.

And by the way...again, please drop the strawman arguments (bad habit?). I never said Sony wasn't involved.

EDIT: Looking at the above, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to see it in this way by the way

what you said was this: "which is probably why Sony see it necessary to make it necessarily exclusive" inferring that Sony didn't even try to make it exclusive. So, no straw man argument here. Maybe you should clarify your statement a little(or at least word it properly!).

I think your analysis is off in almost every way, GT4 sold less copies than GT3, so if anythign that series is in decline. PS2 didn't have GTA at launch, so you can argue they didn't 'need' it then either, but they got it, and it made a hell of a big difference when it came to making their console THE console to play.

If anything, Sony need GTA more than ever now, since they can no longer sit back and collect the vast majority of 3rd party titles. With PS2 they enjoyed hundreds upon hundreds of games that were exclusive by default, due to nothing more than their superior install base. Now, almost all 3rd party games wil be cross platform, making exclusives more important for Sony than they've ever been since PS1 days.

Anyways, I don't think it's the end of the world, it won't have a huge impact, but it will work wonders for the image of XBOX as a true competitor, the social notion that PS is 'the' console for playing GTA will be gone, and that in itself is huge for MS.

 

[Tap In]

They don't need to replace anything.

I agree with scooby that it takes a feather from Sony's cap, but it doesn't take it for themselves. It just neutralises this as one thing that might sell someone on a system, in and of itself. As part of a broader lineup on either system, it could still be obviously an attractive point.

well said

 

[3roxor]

Why would I say that?

In terms of that it is/was a good system seller. I thought it was you but I guess not..maybe I will sometime search who said that then.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Great post, but with Sony having FF and MGS4 Microsoft have there work cut out

Take another look at the US sales lists...

 

[scooby_dooby]

True. But how much did a game like GTA:SA affect the overall install base of PS2? Was it as much a system seller as GTA:LC and GTA:VC? I don't really know, but I'd at least like to see some proof as to why this title of "system seller" has been bestowed upon the GTA series. What I'm trying to say is that for me personally, GTA:SA didn't have that "whoa, GTA!!!" affect that the original did...

I agree that series may be losing some of it's shine, personally, I have my doubts about how long Rockstar can keep it up! But you have to consider that SA was the 3rd iteration on a single generation, so naturally it lost alot of the excitement, but the step to next gen should be greatly anticipated by fans of the series.

I believe SA was the #1 selling version of the franchise, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[rounin]

what you said was this: "which is probably why Sony see it necessary to make it necessarily exclusive" inferring that Sony didn't even try to make it exclusive. So, no straw man argument here. Maybe you should clarify your statement a little.

I see where the miscommunication may have come from. But I think if Sony considers it absolutely necessary to make it exclusive, it would have been exclusive. For instance, they deemed it necessary to pay to make FFXIII exclusive and so far it is. If it is necessary, it would be done. Not sure if this line of reasoning can be followed ...

AI think your analysis is off in almost every way, GT4 sold less copies than GT3, so if anythign that series is in decline. PS2 didn't have GTA at launch, so you can argue they didn't 'need' it then either, but they got it, and it made a hell of a big difference when it came to making their console THE console to play.

Again with the "analysis."

I haven't seen sales that reflect your statement that GT4 has sold less than GT3 in the same amount of time, so if I were to take that argument seriously, I will have to see a source.

As for GTA being exclusive to PS2 at launch, we're forgetting that they originally offered MS to make it an exclusive to Xbox but they got turned down and was picked up by Sony . Of course it helped sales and it was unique and fun in its day.

If anything, Sony need GTA more than ever now, since they can no longer sit back and collect the vast majority of 3rd party titles. With PS2 they enjoyed hundreds upon hundreds of games that were exclusive by default, due to nothing more than their superior install base. Now, almost all 3rd party games wil be cross platform, making exclusives more important for Sony than they've ever been since PS1 days.

Of course it can be argued that high-profile exclusives are always needed on a console. But whether or not that exclusivity is a big deal anymore (due to the factors I previously mentioned) is the topic of debate. There are reasons why some people think that its not and there are reasons why people think it is. For instance, GTAIII was not revealed to go to Xbox until very late and same with GTA:VC. By now, with the pattern of 3 GTAs making their way to Xbox/PC within a matter of time, its arguably no longer as valuable as it once was. Hence it is not as needed as before. I believe the series has simply lost at least some of its appeal as an exclusive to in the eyes of Sony.

Anyways, I don't think it's the end of the world, it won't have a huge impact, but it will work wonders for the image of XBOX as a true competitor, the social notion that PS is 'the' console for playing GTA will be gone, and that in itself is huge for MS.

Again, PS hasn't been 'the' console for playing GTA for a while already. Nor are consoles 'the' platform for playing GTA either.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I see where the miscommunication may have come from. But I think if Sony considers it absolutely necessary to make it exclusive, it would have been exclusive. For instance, they deemed it necessary to pay to make FFXIII exclusive and so far it is. If it is necessary, it would be done. Not sure if this line of reasoning can be followed ...

No, because you are assuming MS has the same level of interest in both titles. They may have wanted GTA much more than FF13, and were more agressive in their bidding. Perhaps SE was more resistant to MS than Rockstar. There are many different possible explanations.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Again, PS hasn't been 'the' console for playing GTA for a while already. Nor are consoles 'the' platform for playing GTA either.

Yes it has, and if you don't think so you're out of touch with the gaming public. Nobody gives 2 craps what comes out on PC, and nobody wants to wait 8 months to play a game all their friends are already playing. If you wanted to play GTA, when it came out, you bought a PS2, simple as that.

As for the GT3 vs GT4 thing, I'm almost positive of that, you can look it up, or not, I don't care. It was your example, so you should provide the evidence that sales are increasing. You also haven't provided a SHRED of evidence to indicate that GTA sales are decreasing. As far as I can tell, GTA is still "in it's day" unlike franchises like MGS and GT which have declining sales.

btw, you haven't addressed my point about ps2 3rd party support vs ps3 3rd party support, and the ever increasing importance of exclusives as a differentiator.

 

[rounin]

No, because you are assuming MS has the same level of interest in both titles. They may have wanted GTA much more than FF13, and were more agressive in their bidding. Perhaps SE was more resistant to MS than Rockstar. There are many different possible explanations.

There are indeed a lot of possible explanations. For instance, with X360 failing so badly in Japan, what are the odds of MS not wanting this more badly than GTA, a seller in the states where they are already doing well. You make it sound like MS "won" in a bid, but the fact remains that its not exclusive to anyone anymore. Basically I think nobody "won" any bids.

Yes it has, and if you don't think so you're out of touch with the gaming public. Nobody gives 2 craps what comes out on PC, and nobody wants to wait 8 months to play a game all their friends are already playing. If you wanted to play GTA, when it came out, you bought a PS2, simple as that.

Theres really no way to argue this and back it up with anything at all. Me and you can really just go back and forth so I suggest this point be dropped.

As for the GT3 vs GT4 thing, I'm almost positive of that, you can look it up, or not, I don't care. It was your example, so you should provide the evidence that sales are increasing.

Why would I have to provide evidence that sales are increasing? Did I state they were? Maybe its in your head again. I don't really care in that case I just stated GT4 as being a good exclusive and the fact that its one of the top sellers of 2005 was used to back up that statement.

btw, you haven't addressed my point about ps2 3rd party support vs ps3 3rd party support, and the ever increasing importance of exclusives as a differentiator.

I believe if you look in my last post, I touched on this topic. How are we to compare PS2 3rd party support and PS3 3rd party support? As far as I know developers likely to bank on PS2 install base at least transfering mostly to PS3 and hence they should continue most of their support on the PS3. But being as this is your point, I would like to see you bring up references to back it up Be that as it may, this new point you decide to bring up isn't within the scope of this thread so if you wish, you may choose to start a new thread on this topic (or is this another strawman ).

EDIT for addressing new points you brought in with your edits :

You also haven't provided a SHRED of evidence to indicate that GTA sales are decreasing. As far as I can tell, GTA is still "in it's day" unlike franchises like MGS and GT which have declining sales.

You haven't provided a SHRED of evidence that I said GTA sales are decreasing (again this is most likely just going on in your head). I have simply said and provided possible reasons why it has lost at least some of its appeal.

Franchises such as MGS and GT having declining sales is something I would like to see backed up however . In any case, those two are time-honoured and "classic" series that have been around for a long time and hence have an almost guaranteed fanbase...

 

[scooby_dooby]

Rounin, you remind me of an ostrich with his head buried in the sand.

 

[Synergy34]

They may have wanted GTA much more than FF13, and were more agressive in their bidding.

Bid? Since when does a company have to bid to get a game released at the same time as the other console on the market? If MS had to pay money to get a game they already would have had, then they lose in my eyes. IF they bid and won exlusive online content, then thats a different story