specwarGP2
Regular
Most people camp their killstreaks. You don't. But it makes no difference because my point is that killstreaks is what makes KDR worthless. you can go 30-0 and kill only 5 people with your gun.
[360, PS3] Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
- Thread starter KongRudi
- Start date
Most people camp their killstreaks. You don't. But it makes no difference because my point is that killstreaks is what makes KDR worthless. you can go 30-0 and kill only 5 people with your gun.
Just goes to show how balanced MW2 is when someone with a knife can go around 40-8 running around stabbing other people with fully automatic weapons.
My KDR is lowly 1.5... but I like playing FFA with the riot shield
my kdr is normaly at 1.2 But if i take out a knife and spec that way it will go up over 5 for that round esp if its a good one.
I actually got my only nuke by using just a nice. I never died that game
And as mentioned before with UAVs, kill cam, players showing on the map via gunfire, thermal scopes, flash and stun grenades, etc and how the game spawns you fairly close to your last death camping isn't an overly effective way to get the 7 kills to a harrier (first decent kill streak perk).
You are going to have to do a lot of killing w/o streak rewards to get to 30-0.
As usual, hyperbole that doesn't align with the game.
Yes, if you have 5 kills camping to get the next 7 is a solid strategy. And from there getting a couple easy Ks via the streak perk will inflate your KDR--but it is only inflating what you had to be good enough to get. The reverse is your Ds for being on the receiving ending.
It doesn't happen in a vacuum.
It isn't like someone who goes 7-0 is a scrub.
Further, it takes strategy to stack your streaks *within your abilities*. Some crappy player isn't going to go 30-0 by camping. The fact I have seen no more than 10 nukes (and none in 2 weeks) in 48 hours of play tells me you it isn't as easy as camping--or that KDR is hyper inflated.
That said, yes, good players who get the better streaks AND are good enough to avoid being the constant victim of streaks (e.g. kill the enemy BEFORE they get a harrier, pavelow, etc) as well as knowing how to subvert them (either by shooting them down--very easy--or by using classes that make them invisible to enemy air) are going to have a better KDR. Why?
Because they know how to win the game--and KDR shows they know how to KILL a well and know how to avoid DIEING.
My big problem is not over sprinting./QUOTE]
I had this problem but with marathon pro you get quick aim from sprint
specwarGP2
Regular
No you don't. I've done it before. you need 7 kills. Harrier - chopper gunner - nuke.
I never said that but it depends. It's pretty easy to go 7-0 if you camp. Red dots dont mean crap. They just tell you that someone fired a weapon or threw a nade. If someone was camping in that spot, he could be moving and set up camp somewhere else.
Sure. Play without any killstreaks equipped and let me know if you can go 26-0. Scores like that are next to impossible without killstreaks and depend purely on luck. See if you can still maintain that 2.0+ KDR. I doubt it, but if you can my hat's off to you as an extremely skilled player.
specwarGP2, you disagree and then agree with Joshua. I think you misread his post.
He said it would be really difficult to go 30-0 WITHOUT using any kill streak rewards and only using your primary or secondary weapon. -- not using harrier, chopper gunner, etc.
He said it would be really difficult to go 30-0 WITHOUT using any kill streak rewards and only using your primary or secondary weapon. -- not using harrier, chopper gunner, etc.
And that only works 1\10 times when you play with noobs who lets you get 4 kills of harrier.
2.0 KDR is not hard without using killstreaks, you dont even have to camp. I use UAV-Choppergunner-Nuke setup. It's not that often that i get to use chopper, even more rarely nuke.
And tbh maintaining 2.0 + without using anything wouldn't be particularly hard. If i would play only sober i would have easily maintained 3++ KDR both in MW1 and 2.
Players that i know that i would consider to be extreme would can easily do 5+ kd average no killstreaks. Hell,im pretty sure some that i know would be able to maintain KDR's of close to 10. (I know a few that have KDR 10-14, and they only play Search and destroy, where killstreak use is limited, aspecially since none of them tend to use emergency drop). That is extreme skill.
Getting 2.0+ is something any semigood player should be able to claim.
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specwarGP2
Regular
Matchmaking doesnt work so half the players you play are noobs. So yah, its easy to get 4 kills with harrier.
Sounds more like extreme camping to me. 10 KDR is 30-3 every single match. Considering that its pretty common to die 3 times or more just from bad spawns the only way to maintain a score like that without killstreaks is to camp. The game is too random and the majority of the kills in any confrontation goes to the player who sees the other player first.
Sure it means something if you can do it with no killstreaks.
LOL! My K/D ratio is ~ (2.0)^-1
Perhaps that's why Josh ignores my invites?
I would accept them if you sent them, you know that!
I have sent some but you never respond Die 3 times in a row due to a bad spawn? That sounds like poor kit selection/preparedness.
Your experience is quite different from others of us. I am with Ostepop on these issue--the commonality is we both have very high KDR (mine over the last month is about 3:1). And no, it isn't due to kill streaks. I have mine stacked high (7-11-25 and still haven't had a nuke) and as Brit can attest to my whines, "Grrrr! I only needed one more for a harrier!"
There are so many ways for a streak to be squashed: a camping sniper with thermal, a claymore or random nade, Sprinting Commando or close quarter Akimbo Shotty, Predator Missile (grrr!!), bombing run, or just plain surprised.
I am more than happy to let you play with us, so join. I think you will see that good players don't have to rely on camping OR kill streaks for high KDR. My KDR is super high in Halo 3 as well these days (last time Bad2B25 played with Castaway and me, I had a monster 28-0 game--and I definitely don't camp in Halo). Going 50-5 on BTB on Sandtrap isn't unheard of.
MW2 isn't "random". It requires a good sense of the flow of the map and adjusting your strategy in the flow. Likewise I change my kits BEFORE rounds as well as Streaks because certain streaks stack better on different maps.
As for whoever sees who first... I partially disagree. Gun comes into play a lot. On the other hand, yes, whoever has the best reflexes, better aim, and uses cover is going to have a HUGE advantage.
But ANY good player will say this: If you are relying on "seeing" the enemy first in head-2-head combat you are doing it wrong.
Most of my prey never even see me--because they are flanked. When I take 3 guys out from the side or rear they never even see me. This has nothing to do with "who shot first" or even better gun. I won the confrontation before they even knew there was one.
Ironically this is exactly how I played DC/BF1942. e.g. We would pepper a flag with hell fires long before we were there so when we go into sight and they were responding the confrontation was over as the hellfire inbound would strike. Of course on the reverse end of the scenario the copycats would think they were hot dogs only to discover we set C4 on the cap and would hang out on the back side of the perimeter and stinger their airframes back to kingdom come. Anticipation, cat and mouse, and adapting to a changing battlescape are pretty basic skills learned in FPS games. The best strategy is the one where you have already won before the enemy even knew you were there.
Unless you are Ostepop, in which case we should all be happy he self medicates for us mere mortals
For the rest of us, see my wall of text above: there are so many ways to tailor MW2 to a style or skillset that if you find yourself struggling or whining it is because you aren't adapting and learning to play the game.@ Brit: Dude, yes, the SMG have some serous range on the first shot. And headshots can be 1-shot-kills. So your 1 pixel head standing sill is dead meat--just be happy you don't have to be on the receiving end of some of my headshots. 1 pixel for the head would be generous
The FAMAS is an absolutely sick weapon for headshots as the clusters are tight and with a 3 round burst one burst with a good shot is 1 kill.I hate MW2 chat, the only thing I wish is I could hear the OTHER team. I always want to hear the sniper say, "@#!$@#!@$ Ban Bot! I am sniping him and he head shot me with an AR?!" The time to scope, settle down, adjust sway, and get a solid shot with a Sniping Rifle is a LOT longer than the FAMAS+Slight of Hand Pro. I can get two rounds off at their head before they shoot and if they miss I can have 4-5 bursts off (unless they are using a semi-auto sniping rifle). And if I miss my first volley or two I will reposition and/or consider moving behind cover quickly. If they try to strafe to line up they are done for as strafing while zoomed in is pretty slow.
Anybody who is half decent in cod are either killstreak whores or campers in your eyes? Wheren't you the one who thought 2.0 kd average from FFA only required extreme skills in MW1?
(I seem to recall having this argument with somebody, where i pointed out that if i can get 2.32 kd. average being sober 15% of the time, with run & gun by playing 4 hours a week, any half decent person should be able to do that consistently. )
First of all, i said they only play SEARCH AND DESTROY. There is no random bad spawns involved. The majority of the kills in any confrontation goes to the player who aim quicker or who is coming from a better position. Not who sees what first.
Like Joshua says, if you rely on seeing the enemy first, your doing it wrong. You have to tailor your strenghts. If you have good aim, run and gun is a good option. Aspecially in maps where there is a lot of CQC, cuz your likely to win (if you use max sens). Using your head and trying to take the enemy by suprise is important. (this is where map experience comes in), play enough rounds and you get a feel of where people tend to be. Thus you can hunt, and prepare in places where you know you have the upper hand. Sometimes i just see people for the glimse of a second through some window or something, but i often get a pretty decent feel about where they are going tgo move, and position myself accordingly, to get the superior angle.
Its true, that if your half decent, seeing the other guy first might have a big impact even vs a very good player, but this game definately rewards the better players. Best\quickest aim wins, or the guy who flanks.
Further, have you played vs elite clans in S&D in MW1 or MW2? They all have 7-15kd if they play long enough. S&D is perhaps the most important gamemode when it comes to map experience. Know your map and you can stack up on a kill each round on average by just throwing grenades in correct places at correct timings. Knowing where the enemy is most likely to be (you know where they spawn, and what objectives there are) gives you ALOT of "free" kills) (Aspecially nice in MW1, where you could have 3x nades, i often got 4-5 kills from thorwing nades in half of the maps there. (other half i didn't know where to throw). In S&D you can do crazy things with using marathon\lightweight\ninja with smg (for max speed). IF you got a feel for where players tend to be, and how they get there, you can start figuring out "runs" that usually let you get behind enemy defence unseen.
Game is not as random as you want it to be, i got a 110 win streak in FFA from my exam period (thus sober - i also had 3.5+ kills per minute on average). Maintaing 2.0 kd without killstreaks is perfectly doable without being some sort of elite player.
Oh and i run & gun. (But get more and more flanking cuz the more you play the more you know how to flank, and a little camping lately cuz im learning to snipe.
started out with the barret, but now noticed why the intervention is just the most awesome gun in mw2).
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My major beef with the game is there's not many levels setup or balanced for snipers. As Lag Bot said, on a vast majority of the maps, the sniper will be taken out by an AR / SMG because the distance or the damage/time to fire balance isn't there.
There should be better multiplayer map variety with the ability to select which map(s) you want to play. There's nothing more frustrating than voting to skip Derail/Underpass only to have it change to Rust, home of the AHole class (noob tube + launcher + grenade with danger close and martyrdom perks).
Also, I wish there was a mode somewhere between normal and hardcore with the radar being scoped down to just your immediate vicinity, no team / name indicators and no hit indicators. It's annoying to watch a kill cam only to see the person not seeing any movement or anyone on the screen (not even a single pixel shift) blind firing, seeing a hit indicator, and then continuing to spray the area until they get a kill.
There should be better multiplayer map variety with the ability to select which map(s) you want to play. There's nothing more frustrating than voting to skip Derail/Underpass only to have it change to Rust, home of the AHole class (noob tube + launcher + grenade with danger close and martyrdom perks).
Also, I wish there was a mode somewhere between normal and hardcore with the radar being scoped down to just your immediate vicinity, no team / name indicators and no hit indicators. It's annoying to watch a kill cam only to see the person not seeing any movement or anyone on the screen (not even a single pixel shift) blind firing, seeing a hit indicator, and then continuing to spray the area until they get a kill.
I know how you feel! Ever since i started sniping i feel the same way. Most of the maps are to small to really work for a sniper rifle, and if you miss your shot, you usually never have the time to take a second one.
Joshua Luna said:
I've played my fair share of MW2 and I've had "bad spawns" more times than I could count. To be fair, I think it quite depends on what game modes you play and with what people. If you often play alone or the other teams spreads out nicely, it is very easy to get 3 bad spawns. I've had plenty: Spawn in the middle of cross-fire - dead within 2 seconds. Next spawn, predator missile. Dead. Next spawn cross-fire again. Dead. Next spawn, harrier above and I'm dead again. Sometimes, it's pretty damn fustrating. The most I've had this strangely is usually in the Favela level.
Playing with mates makes it so much easier as I usually ask before I spawn if there's a harrier or helicopter above to make last minute adjustments like spawning cold blodded to avoid unecessary kills. Not always possible though.
It's definately very fustrating though and to a level which I hadn't experienced in other Call of Duties to this extend. Other games don't have this problem at all since they are more set up with a home-base/enemy-base map layout so you generally only have to move in one direction. In MW2, it's not uncomon to spawn in the middle of the map and depending on where you're team-mates are you have 360° of hostile surroundings where someone could be firing at you.
Joshua Luna said:
While I agree that camping isn't necessary to achieve a good KDR, I definately agree that KDR is less of a true messure in this game compared to other games which don't hand you kill-streak rewards. And I've played more than enough to see how kill-streaks have tilted matches in one teams favour again and again and again. Sure, it takes skill to get those kill-streaks, but a well setup team will play to that advantage. And once you have the kill streak (usually you can be very lucky to get powerful rewards via care package already).
Free-for-all is more of a battle of getting consecutive kills which gets you kill streak rewards. I've won plenty of free-for-all thanks to pave-low which had me going from 23-12 kills to 30-12 in less than 10 seconds... And if it wasn't me, it's usually someone elses harrier/helicopter/gunner that gets the job done. I've rarely had a FFA match that wasn't won by someone who had a kill streak. Ironically though, FFA tend to be the easiest matches to win (for me) and get good KDR.
If you play team-deathmatches though and play against well setup teams, it can be extremely difficult.
Ostepop said:
Ugh. Search & Destroy is by far the worst messure of anything outthere. First of all, defendants mostly camp exclusively since you don't respawn and the pressure is on the attacking team to get the job done before the time runs out. And those that don't camp, flank. It's also easier to get the kill streak rewards as defendants and once you have that advantage, you're pretty much on target to win the match which makes your KDR skyrocket.
And people who play Search & Destroy exclusively probably don't have a meaningfull KDR anyway since the killing rate is quite low due to no respawns per round and the gameplay is much slower (practically no run & gun). I've got a lot more respect for people with high KDR in other game modes which actually require initiative.
@Ostepop
Looking at the weapon stats, it seems like the Intervention does the same damage as the Barret, but is a little more accurate. Is that what you're talking about, or did you notice something else?
I've only used it once (picked it up off a dead guy). It seemed good, but I need the semi auto capability of the Barret because I'm noob.
Looking at the weapon stats, it seems like the Intervention does the same damage as the Barret, but is a little more accurate. Is that what you're talking about, or did you notice something else?
I've only used it once (picked it up off a dead guy). It seemed good, but I need the semi auto capability of the Barret because I'm noob.
specwarGP2
Regular
I never said that. I said that a high KDR is more indicative of camping skills and/or inflated by killstreaks.
Actually no. I said that 2.0+ KDR is good. You said it's just ok, and proceeded to brag about how you could get a 5+ KDR when you're sober.
S&D is a major campfest. Which goes to prove my point about high KDR.
I never said that. I said the majority of player confrontations are won by the player who sees the other player first. A good portion of any player's deaths, you never even see the other guy killing you. Or if you do, it's too late to do anything. How is superior aim supposed to help you?
Sounds like camping to me!
But camping is still an effective tactic. Go figure.
Ostepop, there are valid concerns about the game. It's far from perfect. So when people complain about some of the problems the game has maybe they actually have a point.
I do believe that knowing the maps is very important. Maybe it doesn't matter if you're playing FFA in Rust, but knowing your way around some of the maps is key to win in games like S&D or CTF.
Lag is big issue in this game. People have found ways around it but it's still a big issue. If I'm hosting my KDR magically skyrockets, whereas if I have a laggy connection to the host I better leave before I get mad.
I know the game is not a simulation, but can someone explain why in the world is the F2000 the only AR that behaves normally (i.e. real recoil) while most other ARs have none. The ACR has zero recoil. I can kill a guy with it halfway across Estate or Wasteland without even trying hard. And talking about funny guns, what about a guy who jumps and shoots the dual 1887 at you while falling.
Some of the glitches are ridiculous. When I saw the elevator I just couldn't believe it. They patch them eventually but the game is very buggy.
Like someone commented already, S&D is flawed. I've finished matches with a Pavelow only because we started defending, so all I had to do was wait in a corner in Sub base and single handedly take the other team out. If the game switched from attack to defend every round people would not be able to build up killstreaks so easily.
No matter what you say the spawn system leaves a lot to be desired. Because there's no such thing as home base I've spawned many times in the middle of all the action and died without being able to do anything.
The knifer class is overpowered. You set up your class with lighweight and commando and pretty much nothing can stop you in CQC (favela is a good example of this). Once you hit the knife button you become invincible, so no matter what the other guy does he's dead.
Last Stand/Final Stand: This perk is BS and should be removed
I also wish there was an option to remove both autoaim and the killcam.
If IW releases a map pack or tells us what to use the code in the manual for I will give it another try, until then it's BF:BC2 time.
I do believe that knowing the maps is very important. Maybe it doesn't matter if you're playing FFA in Rust, but knowing your way around some of the maps is key to win in games like S&D or CTF.
Lag is big issue in this game. People have found ways around it but it's still a big issue. If I'm hosting my KDR magically skyrockets, whereas if I have a laggy connection to the host I better leave before I get mad.
I know the game is not a simulation, but can someone explain why in the world is the F2000 the only AR that behaves normally (i.e. real recoil) while most other ARs have none. The ACR has zero recoil. I can kill a guy with it halfway across Estate or Wasteland without even trying hard. And talking about funny guns, what about a guy who jumps and shoots the dual 1887 at you while falling.
Some of the glitches are ridiculous. When I saw the elevator I just couldn't believe it. They patch them eventually but the game is very buggy.
Like someone commented already, S&D is flawed. I've finished matches with a Pavelow only because we started defending, so all I had to do was wait in a corner in Sub base and single handedly take the other team out. If the game switched from attack to defend every round people would not be able to build up killstreaks so easily.
No matter what you say the spawn system leaves a lot to be desired. Because there's no such thing as home base I've spawned many times in the middle of all the action and died without being able to do anything.
The knifer class is overpowered. You set up your class with lighweight and commando and pretty much nothing can stop you in CQC (favela is a good example of this). Once you hit the knife button you become invincible, so no matter what the other guy does he's dead.
Last Stand/Final Stand: This perk is BS and should be removed
I also wish there was an option to remove both autoaim and the killcam.
If IW releases a map pack or tells us what to use the code in the manual for I will give it another try, until then it's BF:BC2 time.
Intervention is basically a railgun. Once scoped it will allways hit whereever the crosshair is, wheras for the other guns it seems you have to hold your breath.
Basically, aim in hip aim, zoom, and shot immediately. Im gonna set myself out to master that gun. I know one player who only uses the intervention, even in CQC, and he is very very very good at it.
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This statement depends largely on what map you play. In some maps, killstreaks can make a huge difference (assuming your playing against noobs, as decent players will just take it out of they are bothered). In other maps, killstreaks dont mean much. Since i use UAV-Chopper-Nuke, i often go through rounds without ever getting anything else than a UAV, but you can still win in FFA, just keep on killing and take out other peoples killstreaks if they are close to taking the win away from you.
You should see some matches with elite clans. Plenty of clans that pretty much only employ storming tactics.
In other game modes, KDR is much more inflated by killstreaks as you can get far more kills from them. Im much more impressed by the S&D masters, than anything else. "Anybody" can get 5+ KDR average by camping in domination, sabotage or demolition modes. Just a matter of knowing where people spawn.
Which is quite a statement. While KDR definately is inflated by killstreaks, it certainly does not have to be a measure of camping skills. You are just assuming that people with high KDR camps.
Guess what?
99,9% of the people who camp, have KDR's that are PATHETIC. Why? Because most campers simply suck.
We must have different definitions of "proving".
I win the majority of confrontations im in. This is not due to me seing the other guy first. Its due to me having 10 sensitivty and being able to put my crosshair at the other guys heads quicker than he can target me. While seeing the other guy first is a definate advantage (LIKE IN ALL FPS GAMES), there are reasons as to why some people just rape everybody. Its not because they have a magical ability to see the enemy first all the time, its because they have insane aim or very good tactics.
In CQC maps this becomes very apparent, just like in Vacancy in mw1, where unless there was a good player around, i would completely rape everybody. Not because i saw them first every time, but because hipfire with aiming@max sens is the quickest way to take somebody out in close quarters. Granted, weapons are more powerful in MW2, and you can get taken out quicker, but the same thing still applies.
Camping would be staying in one spot or perimiter. Seeing the glimpse of an enemy and guessing on their route and take position accordingly is not camping unless i would stay in that place afterwards. Otherwise i guess everybody who dont run and gun 100% of the time are campers.
Effective relative to what? A noob camping will probably get a better KDR just because he is not going to run into as many enemies and thus die less. Camping is an effective tactic in all FPS games for noobs.
Camping is not effective for good players. It lowers your kills per minute but can sometimes yield higher KDR. Note: Only sometimes because camping is an incredibly stupid tactic that will backfire against good oposition.
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