Xbox Series X [XBSX] [Release November 10 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Megadrive1988, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. eastmen

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    you have to access it through the insider app and then if your selected it will appear on the console to buy
     
  2. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    Yeah, that's what I was checking on the OneX, but the Insider Hub didn't have anything additional available to me.
     
  3. eastmen

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    Sorry bro ! if it makes you feel better you also have to get lucky and get selected after signing up
     
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  4. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    not sure if people care:


    ehh =P if you can't see a resolution difference, I'm unsure of you'll have any chance seeing a difference between HDR10 and DV. Probably close to 0 imo except for videophiles who have perfectly calibrated setups etc.
     
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  5. Jay

    Jay
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    Think evilboris got a look at an early preview/leak of this before.

    If I remember correctly it was basically wrapping the hdr image into DV. So don't think there was anything like dynamic tone mapping from metadata.

    So yea, I wouldn't expect to see any difference unless tv only supported DV of cause.
     
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  6. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    wait, shouldn't this only work with DV TVs?

    Why would someone want to wrap HDR10 into DV? I thought this was support for native DV games
     
  7. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    Yeah, not a biggie, as I'm sure once they move beyond a certain point they'll open it up further. It's just such a horrible experience to see availability only from scalpers at ~50-100% higher costs and see stories predicting it to continue into 2022.

    It took me quite a while to find a place with the new Xbox Wireless Headset available too. When I did, I ordered a set because of scarcity. Normally I would have waited a month or two for more reviews and updates. This is certainly a different market all around than with the last-gen and last-mid-gen releases. It almost feels like the X360/PS3 launch era.
     
  8. eastmen

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    should have told me , i can get you the headset for $50
     
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  9. Jay

    Jay
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    Yea this will only work on DV tv's.
    Isn't there tv's that are DV only, not HDR10? Truth is can't remember, I was thinking of someone had one of those, but probably more likely to be only HDR10 than DV?

    Basically unless it's using things like dynamic tone mapping I wouldn't expect to see much if any difference.
    Don't think theres any DV games, so probably just takes the output and sends it as DV.
    When I heard his impressions what it was doing I scrubbed it from my mind, so I'm probably wrong.
     
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  10. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    all HDR TVs support HDR10 as it does not require a special silicon to support it.
    Not all TVs support DV necessarily though, I'm lucky enough to have my TV be updated to support DV though, frankly I didn't think that was going to happen.
     
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  11. Jay

    Jay
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    Be interesting if there is any difference apart from the DV logo coming on.
    Not holding my breath to be honest, hopefully it will be one of those things that need to be there for devs to start to make use of.
     
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  12. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    I thought I read something about that this new support for Dolby Vision is more than just HDR. It will automatically adjust all your display setting for optimal viewing?

    Tommy McClain
     
  13. iroboto

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    its just a different encoding (more bits than 10), and I believe it doesn't alter the tone mapping.

    But you still need to calibrate your display settings for DV I believe. I could be wrong.
     
  14. dobwal

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    I think you are right. DV will support any XS HDR game by using a wrapper around HDR10 content but for games that actually support DV, you will get dynamic tone mapping.

    DV just lets you flip a switch without worrying about the content
    https://professional.dolby.com/gaming/the-problem-with-hdr-in-gaming--and-how-to-solve-it/

     
    #2794 dobwal, May 14, 2021
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  15. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    This is wording I had read on Forbes...

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...rives-on-xbox-series-x-and-s/?sh=557ffe78d1dd

    Tommy McClain
     
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  16. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    really.. that is intriguing. I'm surprised that it will set all of this up for you because some people may want it custom depending on the lighting the room, but most interesting. I will definitely be doing some comparisons of my DV setup vs my custom calibration

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Jay

    Jay
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    Surely it means after display dv calibration.

    Then it can map every game instead of needing to mess with the in game calibration unless you want to lighten it for that game for your particular taste etc.
     
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  18. Kugai Calo

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    On load time, I tested quick-resuming Control: Ultimate Edition and Gears 5 into empty memory (i.e. no game running), both takes around 3.5s. And that's probably uncompressed since I don't recall them mentioning there's a hardware compressor.

    Edit: Quick-resuming from Gears 5 into Control: UE takes about 7 seconds.
     
    #2798 Kugai Calo, May 15, 2021
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  19. DSoup

    DSoup Series Soup
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    Yup, part of Dolby Visions is a reference standard. The variation you get with most screens is diminished because the screens should already be calibrated the Dolby reference point - or at least be within spitting distance than the average person wouldn't notice.
     
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  20. KOF

    KOF
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    It's for forcing HDR10 and SDR (Yes, it also converts SDR) into DVLL (Dolby Vision Low Latency) profile. The HDR10 signal does not not stay the same in DVLL container, it's converted into DTM (Dynamic Tone Mapping, not to be confused with Dynamic Metadata) applied signal so tone mapping is still improved vs vanilla HDR10 despite lacking dynamic metadata. Examples of DTM conversion are LG OLED dynamic tone mapping, Panasonic UHD Bluray players' HDR Optimizer, Lumagen Radiance's DTM, MadVR's tenser core assisted (the standalone version sold for $5000~$9999 uses Geforce 2060~2070) DTM, Oppo/Sony UHD Bluray players' DVLL conversion, DVLL conversion by performing EDID exploit using HD Fury Integral and above, and last but not the least Apple TV 4K and above.

    The Xbox Series DVLL DTM conversion method is in same vein as Oppo/Sony BDP, HD Fury Integral EDID exploit, and Apple TV 4K. By utilizing Dolby Vision Profile 5, it can auto convert SDR/HDR10 into DTM applied DVLL. It's especially useful for project owners which supports PQ EOTF on some of the higher end models, but can never handle HDR properly due to poor native peak brightness, and thus need a state of the art solution tone mapping solution to get around. Before the arrival of DVLL DTM auto conversion, HDR supporting projector owners had to either deal with mediocre DTM quality Panasonic HDR Optimizer or pay pretty coin for a Lumagen Radiance. DVLL DTM, while not still as good as Lumagen and MadVR, (The Lumagen and MadVR both uses frame by frame dynamic tone mapping by analyzing luminance output of a single frame. The DVLL DTM can't do that without having a dynamic metadata) still will be a superior DTM solution for a vast majority of HDR supporting TVs. For the Xbox Series, the display does need to support Dolby Vision, but for the HD Fury, they can get away with EDID override so it can work in non Dolby Vision supporting displays such as Samsung TVs and many projectors.

    It could also work wonders for non tone mapping supporting displays. The Sony Z9D for example, has 1,800 cd/m2 of peak luminance output in 10% window, but due to its age, it does not support tone mapping at all, so Sony chose to clip highlights above 1,500 nits.

    http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65zd9-201610164372.htm

    "Even though the Sony 65″ ZD9 had been judged to only resolve highlight detail up to 1500 nits in specialised test patterns, we actually saw very little – if any – loss of bright highlights in comparison with a Samsung UHD Premium TV deemed to be capable of resolving 4000 nits. Here are a couple of frameshots (photo exposure intentionally lowered to fully capture highlight detail) from Pan 4K Blu-ray which has been mastered to 4000 nits:"

    The vast majority of Sony Z9D owners seem to prefer Dolby Vision over HDR10 too as Dolby Vision can tone map entire range of 10,000 nits spectrum where as for HDR10, any highlight information above 1,500 nits needs to be discarded. Moving games from SDR, HDR10 to DVLL could also have a side benefit as the Z9D's game mode is well known to desaturate colors, so the DVLL conversion may or may not help with desaturation.

    My Panasonic GZ2000 OLED TV could also benefit. While my GZ2000 on game mode still keeps 100% identical killer color accuracy as the cinema, it does choose to clip instead of tone map (DTM can still be applies though, but I do not like Panasonic's DTM brightning up mid-tones and hurting dynamic range) , and while clipping is fine as long as it supports HGIG, mine doesn't unfortunately. Since my GZ2000 supports 1,000 nits of peak brightness perfectly, DVLL conversion could work as a great workaround for lack of HGIG and provides better DTM than my TV's own...until I can pony up $10,000 for MadVR Envy.

    It is true though, that another calibration is likely to be needed. Owners of Sony BDPs, and Apple TV 4K have complained about color changes after engaging in forced DVLL, and I expect it to be the same as the Xbox Series. I better check it out myself next week too.
     
    #2800 KOF, May 16, 2021
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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