Xbox Series X [XBSX] [Release November 10 2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Megadrive1988, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. Jay

    Jay
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    Surely it means after display dv calibration.

    Then it can map every game instead of needing to mess with the in game calibration unless you want to lighten it for that game for your particular taste etc.
     
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  2. Kugai Calo

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    On load time, I tested quick-resuming Control: Ultimate Edition and Gears 5 into empty memory (i.e. no game running), both takes around 3.5s. And that's probably uncompressed since I don't recall them mentioning there's a hardware compressor.

    Edit: Quick-resuming from Gears 5 into Control: UE takes about 7 seconds.
     
    #2802 Kugai Calo, May 15, 2021
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  3. DSoup

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    Yup, part of Dolby Visions is a reference standard. The variation you get with most screens is diminished because the screens should already be calibrated the Dolby reference point - or at least be within spitting distance than the average person wouldn't notice.
     
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  4. KOF

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    It's for forcing HDR10 and SDR (Yes, it also converts SDR) into DVLL (Dolby Vision Low Latency) profile. The HDR10 signal does not not stay the same in DVLL container, it's converted into DTM (Dynamic Tone Mapping, not to be confused with Dynamic Metadata) applied signal so tone mapping is still improved vs vanilla HDR10 despite lacking dynamic metadata. Examples of DTM conversion are LG OLED dynamic tone mapping, Panasonic UHD Bluray players' HDR Optimizer, Lumagen Radiance's DTM, MadVR's tenser core assisted (the standalone version sold for $5000~$9999 uses Geforce 2060~2070) DTM, Oppo/Sony UHD Bluray players' DVLL conversion, DVLL conversion by performing EDID exploit using HD Fury Integral and above, and last but not the least Apple TV 4K and above.

    The Xbox Series DVLL DTM conversion method is in same vein as Oppo/Sony BDP, HD Fury Integral EDID exploit, and Apple TV 4K. By utilizing Dolby Vision Profile 5, it can auto convert SDR/HDR10 into DTM applied DVLL. It's especially useful for project owners which supports PQ EOTF on some of the higher end models, but can never handle HDR properly due to poor native peak brightness, and thus need a state of the art solution tone mapping solution to get around. Before the arrival of DVLL DTM auto conversion, HDR supporting projector owners had to either deal with mediocre DTM quality Panasonic HDR Optimizer or pay pretty coin for a Lumagen Radiance. DVLL DTM, while not still as good as Lumagen and MadVR, (The Lumagen and MadVR both uses frame by frame dynamic tone mapping by analyzing luminance output of a single frame. The DVLL DTM can't do that without having a dynamic metadata) still will be a superior DTM solution for a vast majority of HDR supporting TVs. For the Xbox Series, the display does need to support Dolby Vision, but for the HD Fury, they can get away with EDID override so it can work in non Dolby Vision supporting displays such as Samsung TVs and many projectors.

    It could also work wonders for non tone mapping supporting displays. The Sony Z9D for example, has 1,800 cd/m2 of peak luminance output in 10% window, but due to its age, it does not support tone mapping at all, so Sony chose to clip highlights above 1,500 nits.

    http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd65zd9-201610164372.htm

    "Even though the Sony 65″ ZD9 had been judged to only resolve highlight detail up to 1500 nits in specialised test patterns, we actually saw very little – if any – loss of bright highlights in comparison with a Samsung UHD Premium TV deemed to be capable of resolving 4000 nits. Here are a couple of frameshots (photo exposure intentionally lowered to fully capture highlight detail) from Pan 4K Blu-ray which has been mastered to 4000 nits:"

    The vast majority of Sony Z9D owners seem to prefer Dolby Vision over HDR10 too as Dolby Vision can tone map entire range of 10,000 nits spectrum where as for HDR10, any highlight information above 1,500 nits needs to be discarded. Moving games from SDR, HDR10 to DVLL could also have a side benefit as the Z9D's game mode is well known to desaturate colors, so the DVLL conversion may or may not help with desaturation.

    My Panasonic GZ2000 OLED TV could also benefit. While my GZ2000 on game mode still keeps 100% identical killer color accuracy as the cinema, it does choose to clip instead of tone map (DTM can still be applies though, but I do not like Panasonic's DTM brightning up mid-tones and hurting dynamic range) , and while clipping is fine as long as it supports HGIG, mine doesn't unfortunately. Since my GZ2000 supports 1,000 nits of peak brightness perfectly, DVLL conversion could work as a great workaround for lack of HGIG and provides better DTM than my TV's own...until I can pony up $10,000 for MadVR Envy.

    It is true though, that another calibration is likely to be needed. Owners of Sony BDPs, and Apple TV 4K have complained about color changes after engaging in forced DVLL, and I expect it to be the same as the Xbox Series. I better check it out myself next week too.
     
    #2804 KOF, May 16, 2021
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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  5. Allandor

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    As far as I know, there is also a hardware compression unit. But I really don't know why they need it. If a game is paused and saved into memory, they could use the CPU that is not used in that moment by the game. But it might need a little bit longer.
     
  6. Kugai Calo

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    It's worth noting that compressing is usually much more expensive than decompressing:
    [​IMG]
    But it's possible to choose to sacrifice compression ratio for a reasonable compression time, such as the transparent compression in many file systems including NTFS. I've never heard them talking about a hardware compression unit, if they indeed have one, Quick Resume may be the only usage.

    I'm rather inclined to believe they employ some compression for Quick Resume too, since Control: UE and Gears 5 are both optimized for X|S games, they should use all the available memory, yet Quick Resume can resume them in 3.5 seconds...
     
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  7. Kugai Calo

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    I also noticed that XSX encodes game recordings in HEVC(H.265) and AAC. I flipped through their Hot Chips slides, turns out X|S SoCs have hardware decoders for VP9 and Opus but not encoders.
     
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  8. Jay

    Jay
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    Probably just never included details about the media block as it's not directly game related.
    But can de/encode media in hardware.
     
  9. Kugai Calo

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    Not sure if I understand what you're saying but here the relevant slide:
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Jay

    Jay
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    Sorry not sure what you meant then, as it said on there vp9 encode and decode under legacy.
    I don't know about opus, why would it need to encode it?
     
  11. scently

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    The 4k/8k AVC and HEVC/VP9 HDR decode is in addition to the legacy 480p/1080p decoders, hence the"+" sign.
     
  12. Kugai Calo

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    It only mentions VP9 decoding, not encoding. PS5 for example encodes audio recording in Opus (when you select WebM as the output file format), but I guess for audio AAC is efficient enough.
     
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  13. Jay

    Jay
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    Sorry, mis read it.
    It encodes avc and hevc.
    As for audio encode, probably whatever RDNA2 is capable off.
    As you say aac is probably considered good enough though.
     
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  14. Rikimaru

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    Likely PS5 uses VP9 and Opus captures because it's a free format.
     
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  15. Kugai Calo

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    Ah is that so. I find it funny that Apple devices play XSX recordings perfectly out of the box, while on Windows 10 you need to buy the encoder (albeit it's very cheap) or use 3rd-party software, thanks to HEVC.
     
  16. DSoup

    DSoup X
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    Series X available on Amazon UK. Mine's arriving tomorrow, yay! :yes:

    edit: it's out of stock again. I used Stock Informer to setup an alert in case anybody else here is still looking.
     
    #2816 DSoup, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
  17. mr magoo

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    i hope you havent played ori2 yet
     
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  18. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    Is there a way to filter out places like Ebay or StockX from the notification list? Those two places are always listed as in-stock but at a 50% to 100% mark-up.
     
  19. DSoup

    DSoup X
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    There always seems to be stock on eBay and StockX but Stock Informer never seems to generate notifications. I think it's only bona fide retailers. Stock on Amazon UK held for about ten minutes best as I could tell. The notification email includes the exact time sent, e.g.

    Just to inform you that Amazon currently have online stock of Xbox Series X Console and Game Pass Ultimate (3 Months Subscription) for £482.98.

    PLEASE NOTE – Emails are not always received or read immediately. This email was sent 19 May 2021 09:35 at which time the stock information contained in this email was correct. Unfortunately, it’s sometimes the case that stock can run out by the time you have read this email.​
     
    #2819 DSoup, May 19, 2021
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
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  20. Silent_Buddha

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    I will be sorely disappointed in you if you don't immediately play Ori and the Will of the Wisps it is so Gdamn gorgeous. I'm planning another playthrough here soon just to see how much better it'll look on my C9 OLED. And then, if graphics cards on PC ever become available or even affordable again, I'll play it again once I can do 120 Hz. :D

    I'll only forgive you if you haven't yet played Ori and the Blind Forest and want to play that first. :p

    Regards,
    SB
     
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