What should Nintendo do to become N°1 again?

[Grall]

Halo was never given away 'free' in North America atleast. The bundles that include it are always ~$329CDN or so ($50 cdn more).

Your 'never given away disclaimer' is pointless, since we know Halo WAS given away for free in Euro. As for pack-ins being more expensive, it's still a pack-in, and surely there is SOME financial benefit from getting the pack-in as opposed to a barebones XB and Halo separately?

*G*

 

[notAFanB]

if 1 in 4 has a particular game, maybe that means there are not enough quality games around .
and btw, 25% of a userbase doesn't mean squad if it totals ONLY 2.5 million.

while not without merit, you are oversimplifying the userbase here.

At the end of the day, total sell through counts and pays the bills
more games , more profit .
so yes 10% ps2 base is better (more profitable) then 25% SSB:Melée

who said otherwise?

Evil_Cloud: if you know 1/10 people with modded xbox and I know 9/10 modded xbox owners we still have 10 on 20 xbox modded.

the piracy arguement has been done to death, let's not trawl it up here.

fact is piracy or not 3rd party diversification is pretty poor on the GC, that and the 'not cool like the other kids' isn't exactly boosting sales now is it?

 

[chaphack]

MS + Nintendo?

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Evil_Cloud: if you know 1/10 people with modded xbox and I know 9/10 modded xbox owners we still have 10 on 20 xbox modded.

Fact is that Microsoft loses $100 on each Xbox sold... Pirating games isn't going to boost financial profits

 

[hey69]

no, but they widen their installed base and become more popular wich will result in even more people buying consoles (and not mod them .. ) and buy more games..

it's a win win situation actually.. 8) well I'm joking here but you got my point I believe

and i bet by now, sony is gaining money with their ps2 and their PSone pure on hardware

 

[London Geezer]

well i just think buying pirate games is a big FUCK OFF to all those people who spent years developing the game. it's ungreatfulness at its best. all those people spending their lives to develop something and they don't even get paid when people play their games?well it's bullshit.

 

[wazoo]

seriously folks. Which console is in slot 2?

Microsoft is ahead in sold units, Nintendo is ahead in hardware/software ratio and their video-game business is profitable.

Ms just released their annual results and they are at 9.4M worldwide shipped at end june 2003, whereas Nintendo was at 9.55M worldwide shipped at E3. Guess who is 2nd ?

 

[Tagrineth]

if 1 in 4 has a particular game, maybe that means there are not enough quality games around .
and btw, 25% of a userbase doesn't mean squad if it totals ONLY 2.5 million.

Dude. "ONLY" 2.5 million? Game developers REJOICE when they make 1 million. Hell, even 500,000 is very, very good.

At the end of the day, total sell through counts and pays the bills
more games , more profit .
so yes 10% ps2 base is better (more profitable) then 25% SSB:Melée

Consider that PS2's top sellers are third party. Consider that Melée is first party.

Which do you think made more money per game? I'd almost be willing to bet Melée made a larger profit overall.

Evil_Cloud: if you know 1/10 people with modded xbox and I know 9/10 modded xbox owners we still have 10 on 20 xbox modded.

Actually, you have that a little wrong. It'd be more like 5/10 (average the two views, not add them). But I doubt HALF the Belgian population has modded Xboxes. Hell, I doubt HALF the Belgian population owns Xboxes at all.

 

[Squeak]

Another thing. Don?t let Miyamoto design the pad next time (at least not unsupervised and with extensive testing to)! As good as the GC pad is, there are some very obvious blunders there that should have been corrected before release.

The GC pad has to be the most comfortable controller out there. I do have problems with the two front triggers which is far too soft and does not feel very responsive at all, whereas the z-trigger is too stiff :?. As for the most common criticism I find the D-pad fits my fingers perfectly, infact it feels more responsive being smaller. Maybe it's oversized western fingers that's the real issue. :?

The handles on the GC pad are the best, on that I can agree but otherwise I feel the complete opposite of you.
I think the triggers are the best attempt at the idea ever, except for that "twang" sound they make when they are pressed all the way in (but that was unavoidable when you use coil springs). The softness of them makes them comfortable to hold in for longer periods of time, like you do in a racing game.

The Z-button and the C-stick are the worst offenders IMO.
The Z-button is hinged in the wrong side so you have to curl your finger all up to reach it, and its needlessly small.
The C-stick for some odd reason has a much poorer and smaller grip than left stick. Why?

I once read in an interview that the "reason" for the different sizes of buttons on the GC-pad, is that Miyamoto somehow wanted to make it clear which was the most important ones. :?
Please let the developers decide on that I say.
Why should players be "punished" by having less comfortable buttons?

Small buttons like "start" and "select" are IMO redundant anyway, get rid of them and use the space for something useful instead.

The ideal D-pad is a concave disk 2 cm wide, with a slightly raised cross and a buttersmooth surface, yes in fact a bit like the jap Saturn D-pad. The sooner manufactures realise that the better.
I have an inkling that in Nintendo’s case it’s a matter of them not wanting to admit they were wrong (but hey, that’s the way most evils in this world arise).

 

[Legion]

seriously folks. Which console is in slot 2?

Microsoft is ahead in sold units, Nintendo is ahead in hardware/software ratio and their video-game business is profitable.

Ms just released their annual results and they are at 9.4M worldwide shipped at end june 2003, whereas Nintendo was at 9.55M worldwide shipped at E3. Guess who is 2nd ?

You tell me. How many of these units have been sold to the public? One could also gather from these statistics MS has been catching up. Implying it may not be long before the xbox over takes the GC if it truly has a lead.

 

[Tagrineth]

The handles on the GC pad are the best, on that I can agree but otherwise I feel the complete opposite of you.
I think the triggers are the best attempt at the idea ever, except for that "twang" sound they make when they are pressed all the way in (but that was unavoidable when you use coil springs). The softness of them makes them comfortable to hold in for longer periods of time, like you do in a racing game.

The point to the 'twang' is that the L and R are analogue, but they also have a digital "override" when pushed all the way in. So pushing them until right before the click is 100%, then the click overrides that and gives a hard digital signal.

The Z-button and the C-stick are the worst offenders IMO.
The Z-button is hinged in the wrong side so you have to curl your finger all up to reach it, and its needlessly small.
The C-stick for some odd reason has a much poorer and smaller grip than left stick. Why?

It took me about 10 minutes to get used to keeping my right index on the Z button and my right middle on the R button by playing TimeSplitters 2. I now always keep my fingers that way, even in other GameCube games... I use my middle fingers when I play Xbox, as well.

And the C knob is pretty deficient, I agree on that score. I suppose that it wasn't meant to be used as heavily as it is, really. Oh well. Stupid design choice.

 

[hey69]

quote by whoever.. "It'd be more like 5/10 (average the two views, not add them). "

so by your calculations, 10/20 does NOT equal 5/10 ? you are so smart.

and yes offcourse,

"Hell, I doubt HALF the Belgian population owns Xboxes at all."
you are right, half of them own ps2's , and the other 35 people own a xbox

Yeahh , whatevereeeerrrrrrr

 

[wazoo]

You tell me. How many of these units have been sold to the public?

Nobody knows, and manufacturers only talk about shipped hardware sales, which is only what matters. You will know how much of these shipped consoles have been really sold next year, looking back at the shipped numbers of 2003/2004. If 5M shipped consoles are in retailers hand, you bet they will not order much next year ...

One could also gather from these statistics MS has been catching up. Implying it may not be long before the xbox over takes the GC if it truly has a lead.

Both consoles are at the same level looking back from the ps2 sales, and that is the only relevant remark you can make. They are both also under the DC total worldwide sales currently, which shows how pathetic they are.

 

[notAFanB]

Both consoles are at the same level looking back from the ps2 sales, and that is the only relevant remark you can make. They are both also under the DC total worldwide sales currently, which shows how pathetic they are.

is this true? what are the DC worldwide sales?

 

[wazoo]

is this true? what are the DC worldwide sales?

more than 11M, a lot were sold after the DC halt at discounted price, ironically.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

is this true? what are the DC worldwide sales?

more than 11M, a lot were sold after the DC halt at discounted price, ironically.

Saturn had 9 mil?

7m in JAP
1m in US
1m in EU

or am I wrong?

If I would happen to see a brand new DC at €50 I would buy it for sure
Never wrong to have a reserve
I bet Sega could sell 15m when they would re-release the dreamcast with a new look and lots of new budget DC games.

 

[wazoo]

If I would happen to see a brand new DC at ?50 I would buy it for sure
Never wrong to have a reserve
I bet Sega could sell 15m when they would re-release the dreamcast with a new look and lots of new budget DC games.

Here in france, you can buy brand new DC pack (3 free games) for 50E($), and last time I checked the stock was not going down, nobody buys it, it is over.

 

[Squeak]

The point to the 'twang' is that the L and R are analogue, but they also have a digital "override" when pushed all the way in. So pushing them until right before the click is 100%, then the click overrides that and gives a hard digital signal.

Yeah I know that, but when you click the triggers they make a little "boing" sound, which can also be felt.

It took me about 10 minutes to get used to keeping my right index on the Z button and my right middle on the R button by playing TimeSplitters 2. I now always keep my fingers that way, even in other GameCube games... I use my middle fingers when I play Xbox, as well.

You can get used to almost anything as long as it isn’t unbearable, but that doesn’t mean its the best or even good enough.

And the C knob is pretty deficient, I agree on that score. I suppose that it wasn't meant to be used as heavily as it is, really. Oh well. Stupid design choice

Incredibly stupid really, when you think about it.
Nintendo RnD: "Wee gotta have one of those extra analog sticks, or else we we’ll look inferior to the others"
"Yeah, but lets make it a little and really uncomfortable stub so they wont want to use it to much, never mind that its a third of the manufacturing price of the pad".

 

[frownupsidedown]

..the Z-button and the C-stick are the worst offenders IMO.
The Z-button is hinged in the wrong side so you have to curl your finger all up to reach it, and its needlessly small.
The C-stick for some odd reason has a much poorer and smaller grip than left stick. Why?..

I use the middle segment of my Index finger to push the Z-trigger, something I picked up in the snes days . One solution is to make the Z-trigger more elongated to fit a greater range of hand sizes (I also think the design of the hinge allows greater variation of hand sizes especially for smaller hands).

I actually like the knobby design of the C-stick i.e instant response to lateral movements, no downward force required to operate, bar the fact that I aways get the feeling of disorientation when using it (since it is used so infrequently). This is caused by the fact that the thumb has to swivel ~30 degrees anti-clockwise to reach it; pushing forward translates to up-left and left becomes left-down..etc. The C-stick need to be rotated anti-clockwise to compesate.

..I once read in an interview that the "reason" for the different sizes of buttons on the GC-pad, is that Miyamoto somehow wanted to make it clear which was the most important ones. :?
Please let the developers decide on that I say.
Why should players be "punished" by having less comfortable buttons?..

I think each pad is designed with different controls is to allow diffrent task to be preformed more comfortably, but that is merely the impression I get from using it .

..The ideal D-pad is a concave disk 2 cm wide, with a slightly raised cross and a buttersmooth surface, yes in fact a bit like the jap Saturn D-pad. The sooner manufactures realise that the better.
I have an inkling that in Nintendo?s case it?s a matter of them not wanting to admit they were wrong (but hey, that?s the way most evils in this world arise)..

I agree.

 

[Rodéric]

The Z trigger is also a problem to me, I can trigger it with the middle segment of my index too, but I would have prefered it a bit longer/different.

About the c stick, I've no problem...

What games are you playing with the c-stick ?