Sony's NeoGeo Pocket's (PSP2/Vita) business/non technical ramifications talk

[DuckThor Evil]

But it doesn't any more if Sony are making a push for a media ecosystem. If they are providing Qriocity content on PS3 and their CE devices, so you can buy a movie or TV series or album and play it on any of your Qriocity enabled devices, you are also going to want a portable paltform for that. NGP would be the perfect solution, offering portable content viewing and TV connection so you can watch your content anywhere. Add in a web browser for buying/renting new content, and NGP takes on a second role as a sort of digibox. It would be a portable way to add internet TV to non internet TVs and connect people to Sony's content network irrespective of which brand TV they own.

Sony really lacks vision at times.

Agreed. I should have said makes tiny bit of sense

They are probably worried that more capabilities would lead to a non revenue generating usage. Now if they come up with a separate SKU with built in storage and TV out for reasonable price, then I wouldn't be that upset that they also have a low end bare bone sku.

But still TV-out feels like such a important feature in a tech piece like this, that instead of taking it away it should be highlighted as a very important feature.

 

[patsu]

Looks like by design , NGP is aimed at bridging two gaming worlds.
I think it makes sense to try that since i don't believe these two worlds are meant to stay separated.
It's pretty easy to envision more continuity between the 2, i think.

When a consumer decides which one to buy (e.g., iPod Touch, iPad or NGP), the decision would be discrete. After you own an NGP, then perhaps you have that continuity (to buy casual or hardcore games).

Need to know more about PS Suite. We can probably have hardcore games there too, NGP is supposed to have higher quality and deeper gaming experience.

EDIT:
I also think that we know too little about PS Suite and NGP at this point. That's why we are speculating.

For NGP's TV out issue, I am ok for Sony to charge low for the base unit and then earn from accessories.

 

[RudeCurve]

The mp3 player was solid, but the sound was not good, and there was no real sound settings.

Are you serious? When using high quality IEMs and setting the sound profile to "Unique" the sound is fabulous. You can also play lossless WAV tracks. I only know a couple of portable MP3 players that have better sound than PSP and those have user adjustible EQs and BBE processing.

 

[_phil_]

I was speaking strictly at the gaming level.Playing Uncharted with touch and accelerometer only , or with full analog control is a bridging tentative.
Then ,designing game for that format may require targeting some intermediary timed experience , between the 2-10 mn angry bird and the 1-2 hour full lengh (uncharted ) immerssion.

Or building intuitive mechanics around analog sticks and accelerometers that are not hardcore stuff but much more middle ground.

There's a lot that could be done (and new things too) with such a wide range of input.

In fact , that's probably the device with the wider range of control possibilities that ever existed , so it's a call for more creativity.

 

[Arwin]

Serious question: how many here do any significant gaming on iOS? I have never been able to go much beyond Angry Birds. I've tried a tonne of stuff, but I can't find anything that lasts beyond a few minutes. For all my enjoyment of Angry Birds, I've spent a *lot* more time playing games on PSP (like say, Tekken, LocoRoco, Gran Turismo, Burnout, Lumines, all sorts of other stuff). The screen is too small and touch screen controls too limiting, and the combination is even worse. Also already the 3GS I have now gets left behind in terms of performance and we got it about a year ago, bought without a contract at work for 569 euro or something like that. The PSP2 should be able to avoid a lot of those problems. Mind you, I love my iPhone, but while it can do an amazing amount of things very well (I can't believe for instance how awesome a recent app I downloaded is that can take a picture and then you can pinch in size markers - fantastic stuff), I know its limits now too, and I think recent UE3 experiments have shown to many that a single multi-touch screen only goes so far, especially at 3.5".

The biggest risk I see is that IF they require all apps to appear on the PSP2 to be either native or PS Suite stuff, then they won't get enough Apps on there. It is still possible that they can support Android apps straight from the Android marketplace, but this is not clear to me right now at this point.

It's a way away still though, but I think they have a good businses proposition for publishers. That both means that there is a lot of room for them to do important work here, but also to see some significant changes happen in the market. I think the next generation of iOS devices will an interesting state of play to look at.

But it also means that I may just get a 3DS and then see if I'll sell it again when the PSP2 hits Europe, which I'm betting will be about a full year later. Enough time to get bored with it. Heck by that time my son is old enough for a 3DS.

 

[Bigduo209]

Are you serious? When using high quality IEMs and setting the sound profile to "Unique" the sound is fabulous. You can also play lossless WAV tracks. I only know a couple of portable MP3 players that have better sound than PSP and those have user adjustible EQs and BBE processing.

Who knows, maybe your right. I've used a few mp3 players that I've borrowed from friends over time and I thought they had better sound with standard headphones, same goes for my laptop and a CD player I had in 2004.

I've tried over 10 different headphones with the PSP, 2 studio headphones, 4 regular headphones, and 5 or 6 different earbuds. I've used several headphones on different devices and the PSP always had the weakest volume and sound quality.

Another thing I forgot to mention was that I hated how the sound from UMD movies were much better than anything I could put on a memory stick pro duo. I tried several video converters to produce a similar sound quality but nothing could come close.

I wonder if Sony is using a certain format or compression technique to get that kind of quality? Has Sony reproduced that quality through PSN's downloadable movie, and can do the same for their qriocity music service?

 

[jeff_rigby]

The biggest risk I see is that IF they require all apps to appear on the PSP2 to be either native or PS Suite stuff, then they won't get enough Apps on there. It is still possible that they can support Android apps straight from the Android marketplace, but this is not clear to me right now at this point.

In answer to your question; It was stated that Applications created for PS Suite will be available for NGP and Android. This has the added benefit, if PS Suite proves profitable, of having Android developers going through Sony to publish their apps rather than to Google and Sony both at the same time. It was also mentioned that games and applications published through PS Suite might be ported to other platforms like iOS, PS3, CE platforms, Windows. This massively increases the customer base and profits.

I don't think that we will have a problem if Sony does this right. We should see some sign of PS Suite in place soon, developer notices with specs, advertising for software engineers....something.

Not enough apps could be partially resolved if they allowed widgets. More extensive/powerful and probably more expensive Android applications would be practical to port through PS Suite, the large number of smaller applications may be better served as widgets and free (or nominal charge).

 

[_phil_]

I have never been able to go much beyond Angry Birds.

Same here (not on IOS , but on Galaxy S). and only with my 5 Yo kid or to keep him busy at the restaurant.

 

[wco81]

I try mostly free games on the iPhone and iPad. A lot of Words with Friends and Scrabble.

But I use them a lot for non-gaming and non-entertainment apps. too.

For serious gaming, it's the PS3. The iPhone provides enough diversions during the day.

Maybe tablets, with bigger screens and potential control surface (or maybe pair with bluetooth controllers) can provide a better gaming experience, somewhere between smart phones and dedicated gaming devices.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Sony probably don't want to sell this to people who's main focus is not to play games and that makes sense, but after being a feature in PSP1 and now taking the video out away feels really lame. I'm still holding out hope that by the time this releases that somehow the HDMI out has found itself into the unit.

The design of the NGP seems to argue that Sony very much want media centric people to buy this. Almost to the point that they are targeting media centric people and throwing in gaming as a bonus.

A gaming centric device would, IMO, have been designed with more ergonomic gaming controls and a design that facilitates gaming. But for the NGP, the video watching and touchscreen (assuming it has a touchscreen) experience are being emphasized with the NGPs design. Physical gaming controls thus take a backseat to its apparent primary function of media on the go.

It's one of the first things I noticed and why the whole device comes across as Sony shooting a shotgun and hoping one of the pellets hits a target and makes the device take off.

The original PSP was obviously a gaming first device from the first time you saw or held it even if it had a gorgeous screen that was fantastic for video at the time.

The NGP is the exact opposite, IMO. When you look at it, it screams out media on the go. Which makes the absence of HDMI out especially notable.

It just seems another situation where there doesn't seem to be a focus on the part of Sony or that they have a focus but haven't got a clue how to communicate that to the consumers.

But as I said I love the design, even if I have my doubts about how comfortable it will be to game on this. And if I weren't dead set on trying out the glasses free 3D of the 3DS, I'd probably pre-order a NGP.

Had they included an HDMI out combined with a minimum of 720p output over HDMI, I'd probably get the NGP in addition to the 3DS. And while a docking station would be peachy, the more I have to carry with it, the less likely I am to want it. I already have a Windows Tablet (replaces a notebook for me, compact bluetooth keyboard if I need to type), eReader, and soon the 3DS for when I'm on the go. NGP might be OK to add to all that. But NGP + docking station starts to get really cluttered.

Regards,
SB

 

[Toaddio]

Had they included an HDMI out combined with a minimum of 720p output over HDMI, I'd probably get the NGP in addition to the 3DS. And while a docking station would be peachy, the more I have to carry with it, the less likely I am to want it. I already have a Windows Tablet (replaces a notebook for me, compact bluetooth keyboard if I need to type), eReader, and soon the 3DS for when I'm on the go. NGP might be OK to add to all that. But NGP + docking station starts to get really cluttered.

A dock and an HDMI cable isn't really any more clutter than just a cable since they connect and are effectively one piece. Seems like a stretch to make that a differentiating factor.

 

[Squilliam]

I already have a Windows Tablet (replaces a notebook for me, compact bluetooth keyboard if I need to type), eReader, and soon the 3DS for when I'm on the go. NGP might be OK to add to all that. But NGP + docking station starts to get really cluttered.

Regards,
SB

What? No iPad? Seriously dude, the watts per hour surfing the net used on an iPad cannot be beat!

 

[Arwin]

The design of the NGP seems to argue that Sony very much want media centric people to buy this. Almost to the point that they are targeting media centric people and throwing in gaming as a bonus.

Your post is not making a lot of sense. The shape of the NGP is almost exactly ike that of the PSP! The fact that they kept it like that, but added two analog sticks doesn't tell you that gaming is the NGP's main function at least as much as the PSP's was, if not more? Not to mention the way the OS seems to be set up ...

Also, if you're unsure of whether the NGP has a touch screen (it has multi-touch front and back), you may want to read up on the basic specs a little more before continuing the discussion.

 

[manux]

Sony really lacks vision at times.

Or sony didn't show all of it's hand as there is almost a year to launch or it goes to the rumoured docking station or multiple sku's. I would wait a bit more before judging too hardly Even if they lack the vision the feedback now and before launch can affect how things pan out. it wouldn't be entirely stupid from Sony to dish out information on focused pieces which doesn't dilute the message.

I'm most likely waiting for 28nm version of the chips on NGP before dishing out money. Maybe they put out a nice new sku at that point or at least the battery life should be better than on launch units.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

For NGP's TV out issue, I am ok for Sony to charge low for the base unit and then earn from accessories.

That'd be the wrong move IMO. People have a choice of content providers, and Sony want them to pick Qriocity, obviously. If the base model doesn't support TV out, the value of NGP as a media player is...no more than any other alternative. But chuck in a few dollars worth of TV output, and suddenly it has a significant added value. Why buy an iPod and docking bay for music and video, when you can buy an HDMI enabled NGP and connect it straight to your TV or amp without any fuss?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Or sony didn't show all of it's hand as there is almost a year to launch or it goes to the rumoured docking station or multiple sku's. I would wait a bit more before judging too hardly Even if they lack the vision the feedback now and before launch can affect how things pan out. it wouldn't be entirely stupid from Sony to dish out information on focused pieces which doesn't dilute the message.

If highlighting TV out is considered diluting the message, than I'd say Sony were picking on the wrong message. Gamers already know about games, so we don't need much info there to convince us. The idea of a portable, full scale media platform with full connectivity (achieved with only needs a single HDMI!), can easily showcase the gaming aspect with significant presence to communicate what NGP brings to gamers, along with the media aspect to show the wider value of the device.

 

[manux]

If highlighting TV out is considered diluting the message, than I'd say Sony were picking on the wrong message. Gamers already know about games, so we don't need much info there to convince us. The idea of a portable, full scale media platform with full connectivity (achieved with only needs a single HDMI!), can easily showcase the gaming aspect with significant presence to communicate what NGP brings to gamers, along with the media aspect to show the wider value of the device.

I'm thinking along lines that "it does everything" but what was now promoted was gaming on the go. Perhaps sony does similar thing with just media focus at some point where tv-out/docking station/multiple sku comes to play.

Why confuse people year before launch with gaming on the tv that might affect ps3 sales negatively at this point... After all the big message was this device is really, really powerful, perhaps powerful enough to make some people not want ps3(wii anyone?) if it works with tv too.

imho. it pays off for sony to give out information in focused bursts making it easier to communicate NGP does this, NGP does that and not to confuse people.

I think sony needs to get core gamers on board first and then move to other audiences(like casual gaming on tv and media).

There still is time in e3, tgs and god only knows in how many other expos to promote NGP and tell about features beyond gaming on the go.

 

[Bigduo209]

Your post is not making a lot of sense. The shape of the NGP is almost exactly ike that of the PSP! The fact that they kept it like that, but added two analog sticks doesn't tell you that gaming is the NGP's main function at least as much as the PSP's was, if not more? Not to mention the way the OS seems to be set up ...

Also, if you're unsure of whether the NGP has a touch screen (it has multi-touch front and back), you may want to read up on the basic specs a little more before continuing the discussion.

I disagree and agree with SB. I think Sony's message of showing the NGP as a media centric device is obvious, but I also feel that it's the same message they tried to get across with the PSP when announced that.

Even if the PSP was more gaming centric, it was only more relevant by a smaller margin. The UMD (Universal Media Disc) was supposed to be used for games and movies, Sony got a lot of film studios to produce UMD movies for it at the time, all because they figured it'd be the next biggest thing. Once Sony how badly recieved that was it was already too late, movie studios (except for Sony's) dropped UMD support and Sony went on to focus on making a multimedia online service.

The PSP and NGP are all about Sony making a checklist and including what they think will make their success, but they never truly focus on refining those lacking individual areas to make a genuinely better product.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Your post is not making a lot of sense. The shape of the NGP is almost exactly ike that of the PSP! The fact that they kept it like that, but added two analog sticks doesn't tell you that gaming is the NGP's main function at least as much as the PSP's was, if not more? Not to mention the way the OS seems to be set up ...

Also, if you're unsure of whether the NGP has a touch screen (it has multi-touch front and back), you may want to read up on the basic specs a little more before continuing the discussion.

Wait unless Sony isn't actually using the design that Nesh posted (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1517018&postcount=30 ) I'm not sure how you can claim they look even remotely alike.

Much like a phone with a slide out keyboard all you will see when you first see the device is a widescreen LCD. The stereotypical image of a media on the go device. Until the screen is slid up absolutely nothing about it says "gaming device."

And once it is, it still features a far less ergonomic set of controls than the original PSP. And yes, I already knew about the trackpad on the back, yet another thing I remain unconvinced will be a useful addition, especially if it features a touchscreen display.

Ah wait after thinking about it, I see where you got confused. When I mentioned the original PSP, I guess you threw in the PSP Go with that which does bear more resemblence. But then I'd argue that again at first glance it doesn't scream out portable gaming device like the original PSP.

And when your average gamer thinks Sony portable gaming device do they imagine the original PSP in their minds or the PSP Go? I always felt the PSP Go would be far more attractive to media centric people that also want to game versus gaming centric people that also want to watch video.

The NGP goes even further into making itself look as much like a media playing device as possible while hiding the gaming origins.

Regards,
SB

 

[Arwin]

My only gripe so far is the design which is almost identical to the PSP

You just look at the pictures, don't you?