Sony Playstation Meeting September 7 2016 [PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro, Rumors, Speculations, and News]

[McHuj]

I caved and I pre-ordered the thing last night.

My launch PS4 is a jet engine in terms of volume so I had been planning to swap it out for the eventual Slim for past year or so. However, since the pricing of the two models is so close, I find it hard to just go with the Slim. Why not just go for the premium model?

 

[Scott_Arm]

O'rly. what sorcery is that? :O

My projector is processing/outputting 10bit/channel already (and I actually think most projectors are processing more than 8 bit already), while a lot of screens still do 6bit dithered magic. hence I hope there is a way to get HDR working with my existing hardware. (Maybe I'll need a firmware upgrade for my projector as well, yet you'd be right that this might be unlikely ).
Otherwise, there are exactly 0 projectors with HDR support from what I see, and they might charge insane for it, although this would be a joke (as it's HDR internally already).

Unless you're projector or tv are advertised as HDR10, you're not going to be able to display HDR. Not sure what the limitation would be for projectors. I don't know how they control pixel luminescence anyway.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I heard some cable service up in Toronto is now regularly broadcasting the Mapleleafs and Raptors games in 4K HDR. But you need a fiber service and the signal is sent by IP.

If they did that down here in the US, I'd go buy a 4K HDR TV right now.

But you have to be careful, HDR is very much in flux. The UHD products require HDR10 support, which is some kind of metadata system to convey to the display how to display the content. Dolby has a proprietary system called Dolby Vision which enthusiasts say is much better because the design is dynamic. But some TV makers like Sony and Samsung have declined to license it. Sony just put out a $6000 65-inch TV and it doesn't have DV. Then there is a Dynamic version of HDR10 which is suppose to be coming.

On top of that, HDMI 2.1 is suppose to be imminent so probably good idea to wait for that before buying displays, players, AVRs, etc.

Yah, I've read up on it and I'm not ready to invest in hdr until it's more mature. That's why my tv is probably going to stay with me for another couple of years, at least.

 

[MrFox]

Projectors cannot be bright enough for HDR, nor can they do local dimming. The ones that claim to be HDR are just a checkist item with none of the advantages.

I'll stay non-HDR and 1080p for quite a while I guess. Maybe if they make a 100" 4K OLED TV.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I'm actually most likely to jump into 4k hdr early if a really nice affordable monitor comes out ... oled would be real nice.

 

[Cyan]

Projectors cannot be bright enough for HDR, nor can they do local dimming. The ones that claim to be HDR are just a checkist item with none of the advantages.

I'll stay non-HDR and 1080p for quite a while I guess. Maybe if they make a 100" 4K OLED TV.

excellent info, so a projector is out of my wishlist. I am not in a hurry to buy a new console, but my next electronics purchase, if money permits, is going to be a 4K HDR capable TV, not so big in size, not much bigger than 40", next year if I can afford it.

 

[Rangers]

It's going to be interesting to see how well PS4 Pro sells. Less than 10% of North American households have UHD TVs, and not all of them are even HDR capable. Market research expects 50% UHD adaptation to happen at 2020. And these are North American numbers. FullHD TVs got popular first in North America, it took several years for other continents to catch up.

The shown PS4 Pro games used the extra hardware resources mostly to hit as close to 4K output (+HDR output). 90%+ of customers have 1080p TVs (holiday this year). Downsampling from 4K down to 1080p gives you nice antialiasing. However if that's the only difference in most games, it's going to be hard to convince most consumers to upgrade. As a gamer, I would like 30 fps -> 60 fps upgrade more. But I understand that it is hard to double the frame rate, as the CPU received only a minor boost. And unfortunately double frame rate is not as sexy as 4K

I think it's exactly the reverse. I think demand for consoles is fairly price inelastic, around that $300-$500 point anyway. Somebody going to buy a console is not making a big differentiation in his mind between 300 and 400 dollars IMO (this is precisely the same reason why the slightly better PS4 consistently outsells/sold the XBO at a $50 higher price point).

I've gone on record and I'll do it again, I think PS4 Pro wont just outsell vanilla PS4, I think it will do it by gigantic margins, 4 or 5 to 1. I think almost nobody will see those two on store shelves next to each other and choose the drastically weaker option.

 

[Rangers]

I'm surprised some of you are so dour on 4k+HDR Tv purchase. 4k is already ubiquitous and pricing is good and getting better. Not sure what the situation is on HDR. Other concern is input lag.

Maybe by themselves 4k and HDR are not compelling, but put together I can see the seeds of me desiring a new TV in a year or two. Even though my current set still feels new. Dont forget how consoles drive cutting edge TV adoption. 360 really drove a lot of early HDTV adoption back in the day, I was around for that, and was one of those who bought my first HDTV basically for my 360, and I remember so many others were doing the same around then. Dont get me wrong though, I'll definitely wait a year or two for really good deals and things to get sorted, no rush at all.

Heh, I still have that set, purchased in 2006 I think. It's huge for it's 27" size now, I recall it came in a box probably literally as big as 55" TV's come in now (not only was the set big but boxes much more wasteful back then). The bad thing about it was it was right on the cusp of a few things, it was right before the FCC mandated HDTV's have digital tuners, so it didn't. It also didn't have an HDMI input, just VGA, Component, and DVI-D. It also was a straight 720P set (not sure, but I think it was actually 720P and not even a1366X768). Because of lack of HDMI etc it's not very useful as a 2nd set today.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

DF hands on. Looks pretty good.

 

[Cyan]

That's true. PS4 price should go down much less than traditional "last gen" consoles. PS4 Slim is priced at 300$, so it doesn't degrade the original PS4 price much either. Upgrade at 200$+ sounds much more reasonable.

1. There are more games available. I have bought consoles just because of a single game franchise.
2. There are better games available. Launch window games are never perfect.
3. You just bought a UHD TV and are looking for some 4K and/or HDR content.
4. Your life situation has changed (more money, more free time, etc)
5. You are interested about PSVR, and this is the best console for it.
6. You bought Xbox One at launch, because you liked XBO launch games better. Now there's enough PS4 games that you want to play.

I have done 6 in several generations. One console had better games in launch, so I bought it. I bought the other one or two years later.

I am curious about how many NEW units (and users) the PS4 Pro is going to move for Sony. The people who are more interested in it seem to be people that own the PS4 already, some people that wanted a PS4 but were patient enough to wait for it or people who are interested in PSVR. Other than that, it's a halfway console, which has advantages and disadvantages.

I mean, Sony got in an awkward position to promote it and that got reflected in their conference. :smile2:They wanted to be smart about it. Too much enthusiasm about the Pro and some people would feel mistreated as if their PS4 was inferior, too little enthusiasm and passion is not what people expect either, so they had to be very careful.

 

[wco81]

I'm actually most likely to jump into 4k hdr early if a really nice affordable monitor comes out ... oled would be real nice.

I heard one of the LG OLEDs was like $2500 or $3000 for awhile recently. That's for 55 inches.

Sony just put out a TV with more local dimming zones than any other. Some people say it's better than the OLED, especially in areas like motion processing. But it's $6000 for a 65-inch model and it doesn't have Dolby Vision.

Towards the end of the year, prices should come down as new models will be shown in January. But there's too much in flux to pay a lot for a high-end set right now.

 

[RobertR1]

Current OLED's can do DV and HDR10.

I would wait for next year OLED's. If the improvement over the past couple of years are an indication, it should be improve in key areas while being cheaper.

Doing a full A/V refresh next year is likely good timing. Standards will have settled in, prices cheaper, product maturity and better interoperability.

 

[eastmen]

First things first, I am disappointed that the PS4 Pro doesn't include a UHD BR drive, to me thats just plain short sightedness and obviously down to cost.

Scorpio on paper is going to be significantly more powerful that even the PS4 Pro. Over the course, it should receive the best looking/best performing or both ports of multiplatform games.

I also agree that the PS4 Pro is a weird half step, although I don't think it will be a sticking point seeing as it's come in at a really low price.

Now lets not get carried away with 1TB SSD's and huge amounts of RAM and fantastically fast processors in the Scorpio. Unless you want to see the Scorpio releasing at $800. Lets get one thing straight, the Scorpio will be a pretty big machine if its gonna include half of what it rumoured to have. And thats before we even talk about the price. I'm sure Sony made the Pro as cheap as it could, hence the lack of UHD as that would have pushed it over $400. If the Scorpio is going to have Zen/Vega, 12GB super fast RAM and potentially 2TB drive or smaller SSD, then it's going to be considerably more expensive than $400....I'm think nearer $500-$600. That is unless they come out with 2 versions. But that's a talking point for another thread and another day maybe.

Meh , 1TB SSDs are dropping in price all the time . You can get a 1TB SSD for under $200 and I am sure by black Friday they will be under $150. Fall of 2017 and they will be closer to $100. That is of course with multiple hands in the honey pot. For MS buying millions of nand for its consoles will get them cheaper. They are already ikely paying $30 or so for the physical drive so if they can get the ssd for aroun the same price I don't see why they wouldn't include it.

As for Zen its launching this year from what I understand which means AMD will have had a year of being able to tweak it for yields. Vega is launching early 2017 so they will have had time to tweak that. We know that a 8 core 16 thread Zen is coming in at 65-95 watts depending on clock speeds. So with a year of tweaking AMD/ MS should be able to get that rating down and since Zen is more powerful than Jaguar they wont need to clock as high as they would on the desktop .

Polaris just launched what 2 months ago on the pc and its coming out in a nov console

Anyway, having the more powerful console is one thing, but having the software support is the most important thing. PS4 is outselling Xbox 2:1 WW ansd thats before the $50 reduction. Add into the mix that the PS4 Pro is the same price as the 2TB Xbox One S and is coming out in 2 months time and will more than likely have a solid 12 months of sales before Scorpio hits the market. We could see sales of Xbox slow to a craw over the next 6 months and I fully expect to see Xbox One sales being next to nothing from March/April onwards.

I fully expect 55m combined PS4/PS4Pro sales by the end of this year compared with 28m for Xbox One. By the time the Scorpio releases in November 2017, we could be talking 70-80m PS4's in total WW. When Scorpio releases and is to be fully compatible with Xbox One, will 3rd party studios continue to spend the time on ports etc....I am not sure. Oh well we will see in due course.

There isn't a reason why devs will stop targeting xbox one esp as there are close to 30m of them out there and still selling. That's a lot of lost sales. Also it shouldn't take much work to tweak a pc port to scorpio to take advantage of its power .

 

[Karamazov]

why am i the only to want both MS and Sony to succeed with their consoles, and to fight for the first place with great HW and games, to please us all gamers ?

 

[Heinrich4]

I have a mix of thoughts here about ps4pro,since 1977 Im always like and purchase a new hardware can offer,new effects,more power etc.

But I have impression Launch two hardware (psVR and ps4pro both = US$400) almost the same time, it seems a mistake.This market can suport a US$800 + games in so little "timeframe"?

As I posted before...Im still consider a mistake "mid generation upgrades consoles" and much more mistake launch ps4pro despite "secret sauce" upscale hardware ( like Cerny say...Polaris and beyond...) 4x4 checkerboard,Temporal etc with specs so low compared to Scorpio with suposed 6+ Tflops.

If this is a way to make console market grow again,maybe It would been wise decision launch later(march) with a less underclock Polaris 10 (clock 1075MHz+) to reach something like 5/5.5 Tflops (early 3 times gpu power ps4 original) and offer 4k Blu-ray UHD even at US$449.

Perhaps Sony realized that could not offer anything more than jaguar/puma cpus ( and need to maintan compatibility with ps4OG) that make any difference in performance for gpu polaris and save wattage.It seems this ps4pro still with cpu limitation problems.

Well I will not condemn the animal ps4pro,because if one day I am part of less than 5% with 4k HDR panel on the market, maybe I like the idea of implement graphic quality with games setted for 1080/30Hz in "high / ultra" that developers will offer (?) ,cause I prefer to rely on the TV hardware upscaler.

 

[mrcorbo]

why am i the only to want both MS and Sony to succeed with their consoles, and to fight for the first place with great HW and games, to please us all gamers ?

You're not. But I'd guess that those who are motivated by self-interest instead of an affinity with or a grudge against a corporation see little reason to engage.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Sony just put out a TV with more local dimming zones than any other. Some people say it's better than the OLED, especially in areas like motion processing. But it's $6000 for a 65-inch model and it doesn't have Dolby Vision.

If that's the Bravia XD93/XD94 that's flashing bright on my radar. My current Bravia is just two years old and I'd feel pangs of guilt replacing so quickly but I reckon I'd get over it No chance of a covert replacement, it looks nothing like my 49X8505 and it's 6" larger. My girlfriend is bound to notice.

 

[function]

If that's the Bravia XD93/XD94 that's flashing bright on my radar. My current Bravia is just two years old and I'd feel pangs of guilt replacing so quickly but I reckon I'd get over it No chance of a covert replacement, it looks nothing like my 49X8505 and it's 6" larger. My girlfriend is bound to notice.

Take her on a two week holiday to some of the most incredible places on earth, and get a friend to swap the TVs while you're away. First time she sees it make sure it's playing back 4K photos of your holiday, in the dark so she doesn't look a the stand or bezel.

It can't fail. It just can't. there's no way.

 

[upnorthsox]

If that's the Bravia XD93/XD94 that's flashing bright on my radar. My current Bravia is just two years old and I'd feel pangs of guilt replacing so quickly but I reckon I'd get over it No chance of a covert replacement, it looks nothing like my 49X8505 and it's 6" larger. My girlfriend is bound to notice.

Remind her that the difference between a girlfriend and a wife is larger than 6".

 

[mpg1]

I heard some cable service up in Toronto is now regularly broadcasting the Mapleleafs and Raptors games in 4K HDR. But you need a fiber service and the signal is sent by IP.

If they did that down here in the US, I'd go buy a 4K HDR TV right now.

But you have to be careful, HDR is very much in flux. The UHD products require HDR10 support, which is some kind of metadata system to convey to the display how to display the content. Dolby has a proprietary system called Dolby Vision which enthusiasts say is much better because the design is dynamic. But some TV makers like Sony and Samsung have declined to license it. Sony just put out a $6000 65-inch TV and it doesn't have DV. Then there is a Dynamic version of HDR10 which is suppose to be coming.

On top of that, HDMI 2.1 is suppose to be imminent so probably good idea to wait for that before buying displays, players, AVRs, etc.

Yeah all homegames for Maple Leafs, Raptors, Blue Jay's are available in 4K (Sportsnet, TSN)...however I never seen HDR mentioned.