Rumor: MS and Bungie splitting

[RobertR1]

I don't think they would go in that direction though; it undermines their entire reason for entering the console space in the first place: the digital living room. Between the teetering effort on the Vista side and the 360's strong leg-up on the Live/marketplace side, it would seem questionable to abandon that.

I think if anything, it goes back to theories of previous years - MS games play on a reference system that can be licensed out to a number of manufacturers, and also emulated/replicated on the desktop. I don't see MS going software-only for Nintendo and Sony - in fact that's probably the least likely scenario of all that could be envisioned here.

In terms of this particular move, I truly just think it has to do with internal dissent at Bungie, and a compromise deal that's been reached.

MS software tools for development and "lease" out the Live platform. It gets them back to their roots and makes money for them.

Also, the other option would be that MS is more content with picking and choosing games for exclusivity from various developers than owning studios outright.

 

[Carl B]

MS software tools for development and "lease" out the Live platform. It gets them back to their roots and makes money for them.

Not everyone may know this, but that's how they started out in the console space to begin with, with the Dreamcast. From there they tried to get inside the PS2 as well, but got rejected. After that they made their decision to enter the race for themselves with the XBox (I feel sorry for SEGA in that respect).

And they've tried it again for this gen; not the OS directly this time, but they tried to get both Sony and Nintendo onboard the XNA/DirectX bandwagon, and both turned MS down.

So... I mean, I don't know. I don't see it happening though in terms of these other two companies ever adopting Microsoft's API, or of MS ever becoming a viable provider of tools for Sony and Nintendo's.

As for Live, that framework wouldn't even run on the PS3 or the Wii, so that pretty much moots any leasing options IMO.

Also, the other option would be that MS is more content with picking and choosing games for exclusivity from various developers than owning studios outright.

This I think is quite probable, and is an option that was raised earlier on in the thread. Instead of buying developers and funding their work directly, just buy the rights to games you think will pan out financially down the line.

PS - Things are getting way too extreme here in some of these theories... let's just wait for the next snippet of news and pick it up from there. How the possibility of Bungie being made independent has turned into talk of Microsoft exiting console hardware, I don't quite understand.

 

[wco81]

Well it goes back to the rumor that MS approached Sony before the PS2 and offered to deliver the OS for the PS2. Out of that rejection came their resolve to enter the business. Back then EE hype (before it was known as EE) talked about threat to Windows and so forth. Back in those days, with Netscape and Java, they were in no mood to play around.

No way Kutaragi would accept MS OS and tools. But Stringer on the other hand ...

 

[dobwal]

MS is a software company. Clearly the praise of their tools has been commented on many times so far this generation. If they can license their software to Sony and Nintendo's next consoles, keep themselves out of the console hardware market (anti competitive reasons) they could make a ton of money off software roylaties.

True.

but not buying Bizarre and allowing a buy out by Bungie is hardly a sign of MS abandoning the hardware game.

I think a less drastic scenario is MS taking the stance that many maintaining a large number of dev houses is not necessary and wasteful and harboring IPs and contracting out the talent to dev those IPs is more profitable.

MS internal studios have or are pushing out Halo 3, Halo Wars, Fable, Forza, PD 0 and Banjo-Kazooie 3. While Alan Wake, Mass Effect, Gears of War, PGR 3-4, Blue Dragon, Crackdown, Marvel Online, NG2 and Too Human have come or are coming from independent devs. MS may be finding that minus Halo all the profit margins are with contracting out third party devs to work on existing or creating new IPs.

When you considered that the internal studios have done a poor job at creating new IPs, a lot of those well known IPs were established well before MS purchased those studios. Halo, Fable, Perfect Dark, Kameo and Banjo-Kazooie are all IPs that were created prior to MS's purchase.

 

[scooby_dooby]

PS - Things are getting way too extreme here in some of these theories... let's just wait for the next snippet of news and pick it up from there. How the possibility of Bungie being made independent has turned into talk of Microsoft exiting console hardware, I don't quite understand.

Agreed, I don't think the sky is falling guys.

MS is finally in the position to capitalize on the last 7 years, and $6 billion in losses by making profit. They should continue making profit for the next 4-5 years or until they launch the next Xbox.

Why in the world would they exit the console space just as their investment is beginning to pay off?

Also, if you look at strategic goals, so far they have been very successful, they have forced Sony into a very weak position, and are well on the way to being the primary didgital content provider in the console space. Why would they suddenly exit the market in 2010 and allow Sony to resume their dominance of the living room?

EVen if MS is considering such a move, I think they would change their tune after sitting through 4 years of profits in the division, and watching their digital distrubution capabilities continue to take off. So any talk now about them exiting the space is *very* premature.

 

[Rangers]

Wouldn't MS be very thin on devs if Bungie "leaves"?

I really rather hope it is not Bungie handling the next Halo, but, it seems like they will end up doing that anyway no matter how this turns out..

 

[iceberg187]

Seriously.


If MS intends to continue on as usual, their developer relations head should be fired. They are driving away the talent that has put them in the position they are in currently.

I seriously fail to see how this is bad. Microsoft gets to cherry pick all incoming games. If they want something to be exclusive, they can pay you handsomely for it. It is a bit more costlier to do this, but they've done great with it so far. Got Epic to do Gears. Bizarre has always done PGR, Tecmo doing Ninja Gaiden 2. Bioware doing Mass Effect, Remedy doing Alan Wake and now right of first refusal for Bungie. How is Microsoft in bad shape with these relationships if they keep hitting home runs with their games? Getting more bang for their buck as far as I'm concerned. Not only are these games exclusive to the platform, they have some of the best studios in the world locked up away from competitors like the Wii or PS3. For developers, you are going to get more marketing money than if you published it alone and it is an almost 100% promised success. Seems like smart business here

 

[NRP]

It seems owning Devs hasn't worked too well for MS. Bungie has been the exception. I can see Bungie (i.e. Jason Jones) getting fed up with the MS suits and wanting either more independence or out completely. I heard a rumor that Jones had words with Allard (or some MS suit) and threatened to quit if he didn't back off. As a result, Allard was reassigned (to Zune?) and Bungie Studio relocated out of the MS "campus" into their own building across town. Can't remember where I heard this rumor though.

It's a shame really. I can imagine Bungie is under enormous pressure to help make the platform profitable. I hope it works out for eveyone involved.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The more I think of this, the more it seems to be a win for everyone involved.

Bungie gets to flex their creative muscle, and give us something other than Halo, as a gamer this certainly excites me more than the prospect of Halo 4. They are also freed from the intense ties to MS's strategic goals, and can simply concentrate on releasing games at their own pace, good for any developer.

MS has right to refuse any project Bungie is planning, and if they're smart they won't refuse many as you don't get many surer bets than Bungie. This will add some extra diversity to their lineup, which may benefit them more in the end depending on what Bungie comes up with. And, they get an instant cash infusion to the division which will see them posting a very nice profit for the holiday quarter.

It really depends on the working relationship they have now though, hopefully for MS it hasn't been tarnished too badly.

 

[patsu]

[That's what I'm saying. It's not a bad news... just unexpected news]

It should not affect working level relationships. If so, it should be fixable.

The only thing I hope they put on the table is to reserve the rights to develope games on other platforms. The rumored Halo DS was an impossible example because of rights issue, but they can find other source of ideas.

 

[Acert93]

Scoob, you have made some really good posts on this thread. But it still has to be asked:

Bungie gets to flex their creative muscle, and give us something other than Halo, as a gamer this certainly excites me more than the prospect of Halo 4. They are also freed from the intense ties to MS's strategic goals, and can simply concentrate on releasing games at their own pace, good for any developer.

This sort of arrangement should be completely feasible without any change of status.

MS needs internal studios to direct their platform vision (all three Bungie titles have done that very well) and the "moneyhat exclusives" approach with develolopers (Bioware, Epic, Silicon Knights, Bizarre Creations, Infinity Ward, etc) is only a solid approach if the stars align (early release) and as a suppliment to internal studios--not a complete replacement.

The fact MS hasn't refuted the MASSIVE internet chatter indicates there is some sort of truth to this matter. I am sure there will be a lot of intense scrutiny toward Kim, Bach, Allard, Satchell, Bell, et al on how MS's most productive developer relationships (namely BC and Bungie) are getting altered when the 360 is on the brink of actually turning a profit.

 

[iceberg187]

MS needs internal studios to direct their platform vision (all three Bungie titles

May I ask, why is that? If you were to ask the average owner of a PS3 what game they want, they will tell you Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy 13. If you were to ask the average 360 gamer what they wanted this year, it was probably Mass Effect or Halo 3. Microsoft publishes those, Sony doesn't publish their games. It's all about getting great developers to make great games for your console, and if you have the funds to do that exclusively, then that is is even better and that is what Microsoft is doing.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ya it definately doesn't reflect well on management that allowed this had to happen, and it's a troubling trend if it continues going forward. But I guess the goldmine that was Halo was simply too much for them to see past in this case.

MS has shown good judgement in which 3rd party exclusives they do choose, games like Gears, Mass Effect x 3, and Bioshock so if they continue to be active on that front they should be more than OK for this generation, but as they move onto their next console I can see the reliance on 3rd parties coming back to bite them.

The biggest downside of this strategy, by far, is that they won't own the IP's to their biggest hits, so they run a big risk of those titles being scooped up by the competition in the future.

 

[Hardknock]

Ya it definately doesn't reflect well on management that allowed this had to happen, and it's a troubling trend if it continues going forward. But I guess the goldmine that was Halo was simply too much for them to see past in this case.

MS has shown good judgement in which 3rd party exclusives they do choose, games like Gears, Mass Effect x 3, and Bioshock so if they continue to be active on that front they should be more than OK for this generation, but as they move onto their next console I can see the reliance on 3rd parties coming back to bite them.

The biggest downside of this strategy, by far, is that they won't own the IP's to their biggest hits, so they run a big risk of those titles being scooped up by the competition in the future.

Bungie being 2nd party means MS will be making far less profit now. 3rd party exclusives are fine and they do serve their purpose of pushing the platform. But ultimately MS is trying to make a profit and the real money to be made in this industry is through selling your own software. Just look at Nintendo.

 

[Deepak]

Kojima's a special case; he stated himself the death threats played a role.

Bungie fans, do you get the hint....

 

[one]

May I ask, why is that? If you were to ask the average owner of a PS3 what game they want, they will tell you Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy 13. If you were to ask the average 360 gamer what they wanted this year, it was probably Mass Effect or Halo 3. Microsoft publishes those, Sony doesn't publish their games. It's all about getting great developers to make great games for your console, and if you have the funds to do that exclusively, then that is is even better and that is what Microsoft is doing.

You can ask a Nintendo owner the same question.

Nintendo let other developers develop Mario games such as Mario Party, Microsoft will do the same with Halo as seen in Halo Wars. But Nintendo develop key Mario games themselves while making money.

As for Bungie and MS, we don't know what the internal goal of the Home & Entertainment division of MS was like, it's likely they are under pressure by the HQ to deliver a profit soon now that all strategic cards of Xbox 360 have been put on the table.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

MS may own bungie but they don't own the people working at NBungie.

The movers and shakers responsible for the Halo success could all have told MS privately to either cut Bungie loose or they'll walk..

What fantasy world do you live in?

 

[Archgamer]

While MS have been hitting lots of home runs with 3rd Party exclusives, Sony has better insurance in case thing falls apart thanks to SCEWWS. Besides, it's not like it's only MS showering money at 3rd Parties to make them exclusive. Sony is doing it too(in some ways ), with likes of MGS4, two FF's, Heavy Rain, untitled R* exclusive and getting full exclusive support from NCSoft makers of Tabula Rasa.

I really have to say that Sony is in better position even though MS is in the lead and their strategy has worked well so far. MS needs to keep their feet on the gas pedal if their want their current strategy to hold up. Otherwise they'll fall down really fast. For Sony, as long as they can gather up a decent amount of 3rd Party exclusives to go with their SCEWWS and that rumor 399 PS3, then they will remain in striking distance for *years*.

3rd Parties = Success
1st Parties = Insurance

^That's how I look at it.

 

[Zaphod]

Bungie being 2nd party means MS will be making far less profit now.

Definitely not. It means MS might make far less profit three years from now. They'll make far more profit now and in the interim period. In fact, right after a highly successful finished project would be the best time to rid yourself of a studio. They're hot property an you're probably not too invested in their next project. Add to that the rumors of 'developer strain' and it seems almost like a no-brainier.

Certainly there are some Bungie fans out there, but I'd venture to guess that the amount of Halo fans far surpasses that number. 'Guy at forum' might be critical, but he's in the minority and three years from now even he could have forgotten.

And as long as we're doing rumors and wild speculation. Who's to say that MS isn't eying up the next 'Bungie anno 1999' as we speak? Hell, for the money they must free up by loosing 'Bungie anno 2007' they probably could afford two or three of them and still have cash left over for coffee and danishes...

 

[Rangers]

There seems to be a lot of doom and gloom toward MS here, lets not forget they are in the drivers seat. I look at the PS3 game lineup this holiday and I dont see any stunners..you have R&C and Uncharted, which aren't going to move systems..MS has Halo 3 and Mass Effect..arguably better. Third party titles are somewhat even, but the PS3 has developed a nasty habit of getting multi-plats late and 2nd best. Also..World In Conflict is a nice 2nd tier 360 exclusive imo.

When the September NPD's come and you're looking at 500K 360's and 120k PS3 or something like that, I think some tunes will change.