Activision buys Bizarre Creation: Info on current and future projects in here

[dobwal]

Come again.

From what I can gather from this thread, MS only hold the rights to the name, not everything Bizarre Creations have ever designed/coded for the series.

Im under the impression that MS holds the IP ( which includes everything on the master disc including art and code) not just the name but I might be wrong.

 

[scooby_dooby]

For some reason, I don't see myself getting too excited at the prospect of T10 "pushing the envelope" on pgr5 ...

I don't know why Turn 10 has suddenly gained the status of a crappy dev, or a dev who can't push the envelope.

Do people realize the timeframe they were working under??

They had only 2 years from their previous title, to create the sequel, and they did so while increasing their car list to over 350 unique cars.

Meanwhile Polyphony Digital will not release until 2008, which is 4 years from their previous title.

And ya, PGR3 looked good as a launch title, but it was lower resolution, used photographs for a majority of it's landscapes and had only 60 or 70 cars. Apples and oranges imo.

I'm pretty sure that had Turn 10 been given until the end of 2008 to produce their next sequel, they could've wowed us, but it was simply too much to ask for them to do it all in just 24 months.

 

[nelg]

What concerns me is MS is pretty shallow on the 1st party front. Sure, contracting exclusives has worked well. But the market can shift. And importantly having internal partners to share resources as well as push the agenda is vital. MS has Bungie and then has a number of studios that have smallish genres they focus on or have been in hit/miss on titles.

On the other hand, if a studio does not own the IP and its employees are mobile, then where is the value in owning a studio?

 

[dobwal]

On the other hand, if a studio does not own the IP and its employees are mobile, then where is the value in owning a studio?

Isn't the difference like 20 internal studios for Sony versus like 12 internal studios for MS, while actual number of IPs owned may be in MS favor with the inclusion of PC titles.

 

[TheChefO]

I don't know why Turn 10 has suddenly gained the status of a crappy dev, or a dev who can't push the envelope.

Between the two devs, which do you feel is pushing the technology envelope?

I'm not going to address gameplay, or realism or amount of cars or methodology for creating environments or cars. When it comes down to it, which of these two devs better represented their target of recreating the gaming world in a genre leading way?

 

[TheChefO]

Why not? Turn 10 is a racing dev that would have access to all the code and art to PGR. I think a big problem that could possibly occur that in a interest to differentiate the two games, PGR might be push too far to the arcade side of racing genre.

Sure, I have no doubt they can produce a decent product and copying BC's codebase would put them in a good position to do so, but again, who is copying who? And by "building on" this codebase, how does one expect them to push the envelope?

 

[dobwal]

Between the two devs, which do you feel is pushing the technology envelope?

I'm not going to address gameplay, or realism or amount of cars or methodology for creating environments or cars. When it comes down to it, which of these two devs better represented their target of recreating the gaming world in a genre leading way?

By what metric are you trying to measure? All the above mention aspects come into play when trying to push the technology.

 

[TheChefO]

By what metric are you trying to measure? All the above mention aspects come into play when trying to push the technology.

Graphics of course.

 

[dobwal]

Graphics of course.

Well given that Forza places more emphasis on other aspects of the racing with a more robust feature set than PGR. Alleviating the need on that emphasis would allow more concentration on just graphics.

 

[TheChefO]

Well given that Forza places more emphasis on other aspects of the racing with a more robust feature set than PGR. Alleviating the need on that emphasis would allow more concentration on just graphics.

Perhaps, and I may be proven wrong. But I have yet to see evidence of their ability to lead the pack in the graphics realm. (not just technically. but artistically as well).

On the other hand, I have seen BC lead the pack on multiple games with the latest (pgr4) pushing the boundaries, yet again. Their team is doing things in the genre that no other team has matched.

I understand T10 had different design goals and that obviously does affect how the team will dedicate their resources and time, thus the end result will be a reflection of where they spent their time and resources.

T10 may be just as capable, but I'll believe it when I see it.

In the meantime, the PGR that I knew as a technically/artistically cutting edge racing series (even back to the MSR days on DC), is dead.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Between the two devs, which do you feel is pushing the technology envelope?

I'm not going to address gameplay, or realism or amount of cars or methodology for creating environments or cars. When it comes down to it, which of these two devs better represented their target of recreating the gaming world in a genre leading way?

Well Bizarre is definately, but due to the nature of their title, they also had much more time to dedicate to it, which is my point.

Traditionally sim racers take longer to develop, and I think GT5's 2008/2009 release shows that.

Given the timeline of only 24months, Turn10 had to make a tough decision, which was to not totally overhaul their graphic engine, and the end result is what we see with Forza 2.

Had they created a totally new engine from scratch like PGR, and had an extra year in development to model all the various cars, then I think the comparison would be more fair.

 

[TheChefO]

Well Bizarre is definately, but due to the nature of their title, they also had much more time to dedicate to it, which is my point.

Traditionally sim racers take longer to develop, and I think GT5's 2008/2009 release shows that.

Given the timeline of only 24months, Turn10 had to make a tough decision, which was to not totally overhaul their graphic engine, and the end result is what we see with Forza 2.

Had they created a totally new engine from scratch like PGR, and had an extra year in development to model all the various cars, then I think the comparison would be more fair.

True,
I'm just skeptical of expecting one to be able to do something that they have not proven to be able to do previously. MS may have made the right call on this but I would hope they at least contacted some of the top team members to see if they were interested in continuing to push the genre forward on the xb360 (and future) platform(s).

 

[scooby_dooby]

True,
I'm just skeptical of expecting one to be able to do something that they have not proven to be able to do previously. MS may have made the right call on this but I would hope they at least contacted some of the top team members to see if they were interested in continuing to push the genre forward on the xb360 (and future) platform(s).

Ya, and I do agree that Turn 10 has a lot to prove with regards to their graphics.

I just hate this talk like their some 2nd tier developer, when in reality the make one HELL of a sim racer. Forza 1 was awesome for it's time, and Forza 2 is still a great game, despite being rushed out the door (relative to the competition anyways).

 

[TheChefO]

Ya, and I do agree that Turn 10 has a lot to prove with regards to their graphics.

I just hate this talk like their some 2nd tier developer, when in reality the make one HELL of a sim racer. Forza 1 was awesome for it's time, and Forza 2 is still a great game, despite being rushed out the door (relative to the competition anyways).

I didn't mean to ever imply T10 is 2nd tier or downplay their contributions or abilities, but let's face it, PD is bringing it.

If MS wants to compete at the highest level, they need to have a suitable answer to one of the best selling franchises in the past decade. PD is popular not only for their technical ability to sim vehicle behavior, but also to represent this sim in a visually pleasing and accurate way. I know of half dozen people that bought ps2 last gen on the strength of the visuals in GT alone.

Forza is a great game and certainly isn't poor looking, but in order to be the best, you have to beat the best. In many ways, I would say F2 does that, but in others, it doesn't.

The PGR team certainly went a long way in establishing the xb platforms as technically capable machines. Losing this edge, will hurt.

 

[AlNom]

Do they have all that much to prove? In the FM2 replay, they have some pretty tight graphics. Given how PGR has been 30fps the past 3 games (PGR just had no v-sync)... It seems they'd do quite well as-is.

 

[TheChefO]

Do they have all that much to prove?

The bar is PD. At this point, they're close, but no cigar.

We'll see.

 

[Farid]

Good move for Activision, could be a good move for BC, and MS... they should let the PGR license die. Who could make a good arcade racer for them??

Good question, I was thinking about this earlier and wondered what (good) studio could be a contender for the franchise. While Turn 10 could do it, MS probably would prefer them to concentrate on Forza. So remains only Rare or an external studio to do the job. And the question would be: would Rare want to work on a realistic looking arcade racer and if not what third party studio could do the franchise any justice?

MS would have to contract an independent studio to do the job, and there' aren't many of them which could do a quality job with the series. One of the only and most obvious choice would be Melbourne House Studio, the Atari studio recently sold to the independent development house Krome. Not only MH has experience with racers, but it's also a studio known for pushing the envelope technologically.

Add to that MS already contracted Krome on a project for one of their IP (a Viva Pinata spin-off), and seeing that the studio is independent it fits perfectly the prerequisites for that job.

Another potential contender would be Eden Studios, but they are still owned by Atari, even though the company made known that they were willing to sell some of their internal studios, it seems that Eden is not part of that. Then again, Eden is a Lyon based studio as is Atari (Infogramme) and the company seem to be working on big project for Atari (Test Drive, Alone in the Dark, etc.) So this company will probably not be up for sale... Well, unless Atari goes bankrupt (which can definitely not ruled out.) But then again, the studio would have to go independent for the PGR-take-over theory to make sense. MS wouldn't buy the studio and wouldn't work with it if it falls into big publisher's net.

IIRC the rights to Resistance and Ratchet and Clank are not owned by Sony though. It's still property of Insomniac.

All the rights related to the Rachet and Clank and Resistance series are the property of SCEA.

 

[mister slim]

Sumo Digital might be able to pull off a solid PGR. They've got the sense of style anyway. The project might be too big for them though.

 

[CEO]

The bar is PD. At this point, they're close, but no cigar.

We'll see.

IMHO is your friend, because for some it just isn't. Anyway, this is going to be shitty since they are coming up with mainstream shit @activision bizzares talent might be wasted. lets see if they come up with something good.

 

[TheChefO]

IMHO is your friend, because for some it just isn't. Anyway, this is going to be shitty since they are coming up with mainstream shit @activision bizzares talent might be wasted. lets see if they come up with something good.

I've explained my point in further detail prior to this post that you quoted.

Granted, it is my "humble" opinion, but I'm not exactly alone in sharing it.

There are many pros and cons for both series fans to latch on to, but I don't think it's a stretch to say PD is generally the leader in that genre of racing and they set the bar. T10 has surpased the bar in some cases, but not all. BC has surpased the (visual) bar in many cases, but not all.

From an overall Graphics (art+tech+light) standpoint, the BC team was closer to matching and or surpassing PD in every major category than T10. While they were still coming up short in some regions, notably lighting, the BC team also raised the bar themselves with incredible weather/atmosphere effects.

IMVHO.