Rumor: MS and Bungie splitting

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Then why would they make the ending like that? The ending sets up another Halo plain as day. Hell, I almost expect one in three years as usual

Personally, Halo 3 was disappointing enough I'm not that enamored of Bungie anyway. If MS let them go but kept the Halo franchise, I'm not sure I'd be all that disappointed. I'd probably be happy.

Plus, they cry to much. Why am I always hearing about how Bungie doesn't want to do another halo? I dont hear PD crying about not wanting to do any more GT's, depite they do more GT's than Halo.

You have a good job bungie developers, suck it up and do your job or get out ofthe business..

BTW, the GAF thread of this has over 100k views, and they probably wont let it drop off the top for days...not surprising.

Are you kidding me, are you really attempting to compare what it takes to make (yes, I'm ready for the flames) a car game than what it takes to make a story based game. Is it really difficult to understand someone wanting to move on and do something else (a different genre) after a decade+ of doing it?

EDIT: If this should be the topic of another thread, move it.
 
That's an unfair comparison though, PD are doing what they love, cars and racing (even outside the gaming World).

Halo is just a game to Bungie not a lifestyle choice. I imagine they may feel creatively stunted by being "forced" to do Halo and are bored of it.

Well, why cant bungie love what they do? And some, though not me after Halo3, might say they're the best in the world at it too.

Besides, there really aren't many genres in gaming. It's pretty much racer, FPS, RTS, Third person action, maybe a few platformers..what else are they going to do? The fact Halo Wars was farmed to ensemble tell me they weren't interested in doing that..so there goes one of your genres I would have assumed they would be interested in..

I suppose they could be interested in doing a thinking FPS, ala Half Life 2 or Alan Wake, but I doubt MS wouldn't allow them to do that..

I'm wondering if MS is saying, give us another Halo in 3-4 years because we need that franchise to be our bedrock, and Bungie is balking. If that's the case, I wouldn't really blame MS for letting them go (although..I'm not sure how they could really be "let go")..I'd also be fairly excited for a new take on the Halo franchise from another talented MS dev..

This could only hurt MS big time if Bungie somehow went over to Sony with a Halo clone..this assumes somehow that they wouldn't be multi-platform, which seems even more unlikely..BUT, if MS has the Halo name, I really dont know if the legions of haloites would go anywhere..what keeps them with MS is the stellar live service as much as anything..that is what really is driving MS gaming growth right now imo..it's a real community.
 
Imagine this scenario:

A lot of talented people at Bungie aren't happy. MS is overstepping bounds, demanding these really creative people make a 4th... and 5th... and 6th and... Halo game. These creative people want to let their creative juices flow and they want to branch out and do some more creative stuff. MS is telling them no, at least without a commitment to Halo 4 co-development. Bungie wasn't too happy the last time they tried to do multiple dev teams I hear... MS is also telling them they need to grow... a lot. MS has obviously mismanaged their internal studios and ruffled a lot of feathers. FASA. Digital Anvil. Rare. etc. With their last advocate out the door Bungie faces a tough road: Lose what makes Bungue special -- the really talented PEOPLE -- or do something drastic. They ALREADY lost their lead MP designer. Who else needs to leave? Oh, and Bungie is making MS oodles of cash. They want a cut. Or they walk, form their own studios and compete in the open market. What does MS get if this happens? MS gets a shell of a company and the Halo IP. And contrary to the FUD, a 3rd party making a Halo game would be a disaster. The series isn't all hype, and Bungie the company has very close ties to their community. Halo is a social game--it would take mere days for the world to spread to 50% of Halo 3 gamers that Bungie wasn't doing Halo 4.

Solution? Make Bungie a 2nd party. So when MS rakes in $500M for Halo 4 sales, Bungie gets 49% of that. Bungie can do what games they want (to a degree, a compromise) AND controls their environment. They keep the great people at Bungie, Bungie makes more money and gains true independance, and MS gets to get their Halo games and keep a large chunk of their cash cow.

Ok, I pulled that out of my you know what... but crazier things have happened. How about the Rare sale?? Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Banjo, Conker, Diddy and Donky games, Killer Instinct, Jet Force Gemini, Battletoads, RC Pro-AM, the list goes on and on. Rare was 2nd party and Nintendo relied on them for a certain element of their market approach. And poof.

The no-comments from MS are absolutely weak. After the wake of Bizarre and Moore leaving... anything is possible. The timing is peculiar (post launch, post quarterly it seems) and it is totally out of the blue.

I don't think it is true... but... who knows?
 
Maybe MS wants to outsource the development of those top franchises to developers they think have more technical know-how, or give them to Microsoft Game Studios.

I'd also be fairly excited for a new take on the Halo franchise from another talented MS dev..

I am absolutely giddy at the idea of you guys naming these ultra talented developers... from MS internal studios? Heck, even external studios who want to do work on another companies IP and are available to do such.

I think you guys are selling Bungie really, really short and overstating the ease at replacing them.
 
I am absolutely giddy at the idea of you guys naming these ultra talented developers... from MS internal studios? Heck, even external studios who want to do work on another companies IP and are available to do such.

I think you guys are selling Bungie really, really short and overstating the ease at replacing them.

Halo 3 wasn't that good..neither was 2...

Gears of War has easily eclipsed Halo imo..I have more trust in what CliffyB can do than Bungie these days..

Oh and I'd still like to know what wonderfully creative game Bungie is dying to work on instead of Halo next..what they will do is, "FPS not called Halo", and we all know it..

Joshua Luna, do you even own a 360? Beat Halo 3 on Heroic then get back to me..
 
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We will have to disagree about Gears "easily" eclipsing Halo in gameplay (I know a number of people who don't even think GeoW is the best cover game, that honor going to Rainbow Six Vegas in their opinion). As for Halo 2 and Halo 3 not being very good... your opinion aside, most consumers who purchased the game and the overwhelming majority of critical press thing the games are very, very good. Objectively, our opinions aside, you base these sort of things on consumers and consumers are saying the Halo franchise is a really great series of games -- and few shooters are in the same ball park in consumer adoption as well as critical acceptance.

That said, why would Epic work on Halo? They have Gears of War, Unreal, and Unreal Tournament IPs making them cash. Why make MS money and build on the Halo IP when they can work on their own IPs and make Epic the company more valuable. This is the very reason Bioware is working on their own IPs now.

Further, has Epic shown themselves to be excellent in the areas that Halo fans "interpret" Halo to be good. AI, story, etc. Epic makes prettier pixels, but I doubt most Halo fans are giddy with the idea of Epic further developing the Halo story.

Anyhow, you can start naming FPS developers and the slew of insults, complaints, etc will follow.

id
Cryteck
Epic
Valve
Star Breeze
Free Radical
GearBox
Infinity Ward

I could give you a lot of reasons why every one of those excellent FPS developers wouldn't touch the Halo license for IP reasons. And Halo fans could immediately spot areas where these developers fall short in areas that Halo excells in their opinion.

I also highly doubt another developer would be able, in a 3 year period, to churn out a full SP campaign, 4 player + coop, full industry-leading MP experience, map modification tools, video and screen capture tools, all tied into an online stat and media tracking hub.

And Halo consumers will demand more than that in Halo 4.
 
I also highly doubt another developer would be able, in a 3 year period, to churn out a full SP campaign, 4 player + coop, full industry-leading MP experience, map modification tools, video and screen capture tools, all tied into an online stat and media tracking hub.

Valve could. No question, given the same resources.
 
I think right now more developers could. It's doing it during the first years of a console that it's the hardest. Should be a lot easier if you were starting now.
 
Then why would they make the ending like that? The ending sets up another Halo plain as day. Hell, I almost expect one in three years as usual

Personally, Halo 3 was disappointing enough I'm not that enamored of Bungie anyway. If MS let them go but kept the Halo franchise, I'm not sure I'd be all that disappointed. I'd probably be happy.

Plus, they cry to much. Why am I always hearing about how Bungie doesn't want to do another halo? I dont hear PD crying about not wanting to do any more GT's, depite they do more GT's than Halo.

You have a good job bungie developers, suck it up and do your job or get out ofthe business..

I dropped out of Halo in Halo 2.

If I remember correctly, Halo 3 is Bungie's 6th FPS. They have completed 3 Marathons and 3 Halos, all featuring Master Chief. In my view, the one that had the most breakthrough is the original Marathon. It was the first FPS where the player can look/fire up and down, and record gameplay movie. IMHO, the most fun is the first Halo.

If they start another game, they may be able to perform better (more creative space). If this rumor is true, this is not really a bad news to gamers, just unexpected. Personally, I hope they work on some DS games.

What the gaming industry needs most is to broaden their appeal.
 
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We will have to disagree about Gears "easily" eclipsing Halo in gameplay (I know a number of people who don't even think GeoW is the best cover game, that honor going to Rainbow Six Vegas in their opinion). As for Halo 2 and Halo 3 not being very good... your opinion aside, most consumers who purchased the game and the overwhelming majority of critical press thing the games are very, very good. Objectively, our opinions aside, you base these sort of things on consumers and consumers are saying the Halo franchise is a really great series of games -- and few shooters are in the same ball park in consumer adoption as well as critical acceptance.

That said, why would Epic work on Halo? They have Gears of War, Unreal, and Unreal Tournament IPs making them cash. Why make MS money and build on the Halo IP when they can work on their own IPs and make Epic the company more valuable. This is the very reason Bioware is working on their own IPs now.

Further, has Epic shown themselves to be excellent in the areas that Halo fans "interpret" Halo to be good. AI, story, etc. Epic makes prettier pixels, but I doubt most Halo fans are giddy with the idea of Epic further developing the Halo story.

Anyhow, you can start naming FPS developers and the slew of insults, complaints, etc will follow.

id
Cryteck
Epic
Valve
Star Breeze
Free Radical
GearBox
Infinity Ward

I could give you a lot of reasons why every one of those excellent FPS developers wouldn't touch the Halo license for IP reasons. And Halo fans could immediately spot areas where these developers fall short in areas that Halo excels in their opinion.

I also highly doubt another developer would be able, in a 3 year period, to churn out a full SP campaign, 4 player + coop, full industry-leading MP experience, map modification tools, video and screen capture tools, all tied into an online stat and media tracking hub.

And Halo consumers will demand more than that in Halo 4.

I'm not suggesting Epic do Halo, of course, I'm simply saying that what Epic will do with the Gears franchise is now more exciting to me than Bungie-Halo. Gears has made a huge mark, and you are going to see shooter after shooter now copy the Cover/Blind Fire model. Uncharted and KZ2 already are, to name a couple notables.

Hell, many of the weaknesses in Halo are exposed by Gears. Halo is dated. Most FPS games dont even have a HUD anymore..Halo still does. It doesn't have the animation, immersiveness, dynamic melee combat, even the enemy AI in Halo is easily worse than it is in Gears. Halo 3 is following the same tired Halo model that has now been surpassed by games like Gears. Overall Gears is a more graphically impressive, more tightly focused experience, and even has a better story at this point.

I understand Halo's sales...well, lets start off by saying I've played little Halo Multi-player..maybe it's a lot better than I know. But I can say the SP is a letdown, and I have to think at least 50% of buyers are not going to bury themselves in the MP..remember Epic stating that a huge percent of unreal tournament owners never went online with the title (it was something like 50% or more). UT is a game that is specifically focused on online, and half it's players never did..

It remains to be seen if Halo's drop in qaulity becomes reflected in the future sales..I think just the fact it remains a every three-four year franchise protects it from a lot..hell I'll buy Halo 4 in 4 years..why not give it another chance by then?

But you didn't really answer my question..I'm not being subjective..Halo 3 is not that good..I say in this case my opinion is objective. I dont accept "well a lot of people like it". I can accept that in some cases, not this one..

I think already, one would have to admit Halo 3 has seen more criticism than one might expect..even the reviews had a fairly lackluster quality to them, as if saying, this game is so highly polished we had to give it a 9.5+..but it lacks spark. And what was another common criticism "this game is nice but we did it all before in previous Halo's"..even the levels are like that.

I would cut Bungie some slack because I feel like Halo 3 was started about four or five years ago, and as such was never truly a ground up next gen game graphically. But, 2 strikes in a row doesnt instill confidence..The funny thing is I lost confidence in Bungie with Halo 2..because before we ever saw Halo 3 I didn't expect it to look that great graphically..

I would predict that based on game quality, hype for Gears franchise begins to grow and Halo hype levels off..and possibly that Halo 3's legs will not be as great as previous Halo's.
 
Objective answer (50+ reviews): http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/halo3

By the way, sig-worthy stuff: 'my opinion is objective'...

I really feel like in the case of this game, it is.

A lot of this stuff isn't very arguable. The animation in Halo 3 is simply unnaceptably bad for a next gen game with this amount of budget, for example. I could deal with most of the rest of the graphics, I still think it's one of the top 5 looking next gen games that have actually been released all in all (along with Motorstorm, Gears, Heavenly S,), but the animation is just inexcusable.

It's just Halo, but poorer, that's not subjective, that is what the game is.

Oh and, reviews mean very little..critics often, I would say routinely, give some of the worst movies very high reviews for a bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with the movie..

But I dont see many reviews falling all over Halo 3 anyway if you read the text.. the stench of "meh" is high..
 
It's interesting to see people who don't like Halo, talk about how other developers could create a game to fit in the series. It's obvious alot here are out of touch with why this series is as popular as it is.

My wife plays it, my kids play it. There is no other FPS/TPS that does that. Epic and Valve have been making games for a long time and haven't done that. Why? Because they are too interested in appeasing the hardcore fans of the genre (like people here heh).

Count me in as someone who thinks R6:V cover system is far better than Gears of War, too. Actually R6:V is a better game IMO, Gears is fun for a couple of hours and then it's obvious it's just a modern day whack a mole game.
 
I'm not suggesting Epic do Halo, of course, I'm simply saying that what Epic will do with the Gears franchise is now more exciting to me than Bungie-Halo. Gears has made a huge mark, and you are going to see shooter after shooter now copy the Cover/Blind Fire model. Uncharted and KZ2 already are, to name a couple notables.

You can add "Valkyria of Battlefield" (PS3 RPG) to the list of games inspired by Gear's combat system. The game has captured many's imagination.

Hell, many of the weaknesses in Halo are exposed by Gears. Halo is dated. Most FPS games dont even have a HUD anymore..Halo still does. It doesn't have the animation, immersiveness, dynamic melee combat, even the enemy AI in Halo is easily worse than it is in Gears. Halo 3 is following the same tired Halo model that has now been surpassed by games like Gears. Overall Gears is a more graphically impressive, more tightly focused experience, and even has a better story at this point.

I understand Halo's sales...well, lets start off by saying I've played little Halo Multi-player..maybe it's a lot better than I know. But I can say the SP is a letdown, and I have to think at least 50% of buyers are not going to bury themselves in the MP..remember Epic stating that a huge percent of unreal tournament owners never went online with the title (it was something like 50% or more). UT is a game that is specifically focused on online, and half it's players never did..

I think you may have understated Bungie's performances. It has fallen into this "Must exceed my fuzzy expectation" reviewer trap like Resistance. I think people should try to understand the game's basic appeal. Even though Gears may be more fresh, is Halo 3 more fun and more polished to play ? Halo 3 offers many people their FPS fix. They may not want too many things to change. :)

Plus it's too early to speculate about Gears 2.
 
Back to the topic..a lot of people seem to be saying MS and Bungie are acting fishy rather than deny this story..

I gather MS even gave the infamous "we do not comment on rumors or speculation". Surely they would have said no this isn't true, wouldn't they?
 
In general, yes. But real life has its way of surprising people :)

These are all business dealings and personal relationships. They can change anytime, either way (split or together). The impact is mostly accounting since I don't think Bungie hate MS or vice versa.

If true, the important thing to take home is Bungie can now do stuff that they like. Chances are that they will be great at it.

EDIT: I do hope that they explore DS/Wii games. We need more variety in that direction.
 
I cannot see how the grass will be greener for Bungie on the other side..they have it maaaade where they are at..and it seems console exclusive developers are usually most highly regarded>multi-plat developers..
 
Yeah... life will be tough(er), but perhaps more fresh for them assuming the rumor still hold. Necessity (or even desparation) is the mother of all inventions. ;-) I think they have enough street credit to explore various options. People will treat them well, compared to say Ninja Theory when they first started :LOL:

I suggested DS/Wii also because it's cheaper to developer for, more relevant to layman, and has large market. Plus no western gaming companies to my knowledge has made their mark there yet.
 
MS may own bungie but they don't own the people working at NBungie.

The movers and shakers responsible for the Halo success could all have told MS privately to either cut Bungie loose or they'll walk.

Unlikely I admi6t because they'd lose these key people regardless of if they let go of Bungie or not so they might as well hold onto the company itself..

Hoo boy. Isn't speculation fun? :cool:



All we need now to complete the circle is a rumor about MS selling Rare.

Hey, someone tip off a website about it and it becomes instant internet truth! :LOL:
Peace.

"We will quit if you don't lets us go"?

Explain to me how either situation that leads MS losing the movers and shakers is that different?
 
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