Rumor: MS and Bungie splitting

[zed]

i betting MS arent to disappointed in letting them go, whilst some may disagree but in reality halo3 was a major disappointment graphics-wise (perhaps due to bungie losing interest in the franchise, or theyre not so hungry for success as they once were). if i was MS i would also be looking at someone to perhaps develop a better halo4 (hey earthquake whilst i was typing this)

edit - 5.6 on the richter, nice since i havent felt the last 10 or so that have occured in the region
http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/2802756g.html

 

[pipo]

I still think it's a bit strange though, as Bungie seemed to be happy with how things were going lately...

 

[Carl B]

Another clue?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=44662

 

[patsu]

This is probably neater than Halo 3 also by Bungie
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1073987#post1073987

EDIT: Beaten ! No fair... he's a mod.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

EDIT: Beaten ! No fair... he's a mod.

He is fast, but he still operates within the boundaries of the system. You are faster than that NeoPatsu, don't think you are, know you are!

 

[dobwal]

Sure. MS can't be thought police, but anything they actually *worked* on would belong to MS.

Thats a given, but the key players have been forward looking for a while now and depending how fast they want to hit the ground running and how much they're willing to bend or break the rules will determine how far they go in terms of IP development.

If it was secret, how could it make you more attractive as a buyout prospect? For your anecdote to be relevant it would require both Bungie personnel to engage in disloyal and illegal activities and for MS oversight to be grossly incompetent.

To relieve our technology of a patent that belong to company's largest competitor who was the #1 company in my field. Loyalty is not with MS, hence the seperation. Plus, companies and individual break contracts and partake in illegal activities all the time.

Of course there's corporate jockeying and of course people talk, but to think an entity like Bungie could keep anything 'secret' from MS to they point where they'd use it as 'leverage' is ludicrous. Any confrontational stance would only hurt themselves. MS could never allow it as the ramifications of such a thing would reach far beyond Bungie themselves.

They wouldn't be using it as leverage, they would simply be laying the foundation of an independent Bungie on MS's time. There is plenty of motivation to act in such manner regardless whether its non defenseable to a MS's lawsuit or not.

 

[patsu]

He is fast, but he still operates within the boundaries of the system. You are faster than that NeoPatsu, don't think you are, know you are!

LOL !

It seems that I have lost my spoon. There was a spoon somewhere here... until my pile of papers.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Another clue?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=44662

I'm not sure that is. AFAIK Rare is working on a DS title as well.

[edit] Here you go - Viva Pinata DS, developed by Rare.

Curiously, I'm wondering if this is stealth move by MS for in impending handheld move some time down the line. Bring some of their own high profile franchises to the the largest handheld install base now, then in the future only offer them on their own platform...

[Edit^2] Actually, the further rumour is that Rare are developing VP for the Wii as well!

 

[AlphaWolf]

Curiously, I'm wondering if this is stealth move by MS for in impending handheld move some time down the line. Bring some of their own high profile franchises to the the largest handheld install base now, then in the future only offer them on their own platform...

I think its more that its MS just sees opportunity to expand their own franchise popularity by bringing it to handhelds.

 

[Carl B]

I'm not sure that is. AFAIK Rare is working on a DS title as well.

[edit] Here you go - Viva Pinata DS, developed by Rare.

Curiously, I'm wondering if this is stealth move by MS for in impending handheld move some time down the line. Bring some of their own high profile franchises to the the largest handheld install base now, then in the future only offer them on their own platform...

[Edit^2] Actually, the further rumour is that Rare are developing VP for the Wii as well!

The Rare/Pinata game I know about... in fact I believe I mentioned it earlier in the thread. What's curious about this news is not that they were developing a DS Halo game, it's that it's been canceled at a time congruent to when they might be going their separate ways.

EDIT: Looking deeper into the story via the link-back to IGN, it looks like it wasn't directly Bungie-related; the would-be publisher of Halo DS contracted the work externally of MS studios, rather than to Bungie, and negotiations with MS were for the license rather than development. The game fell-through on the licensing.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

i betting MS arent to disappointed in letting them go, whilst some may disagree but in reality halo3 was a major disappointment graphics-wise

I think the disappointment in graphics isn't anything like that pronounced. Apart from some sleuthing to determine a lower than expected render resolution, the graphics are pretty good. Lighting is nice with convincing HDR and plenty of secondary illumination giving things a convincing feel. The different art-style to Halo would make it hard to place as the best graphics ever, because the graphics, or at least so it seems to me, have been chosen to facilitate gameplay. It's not all camouflaged brown/grey. For graphics to be a reason MS let Bungie go, in spite of record sales, would be both stupid of them and petty. I know we all obsess over graphics, but there is a lot more to games than that, and Bungie+Halo had a lot going for them that far outweighs any graphical shortcomings.

 

[Acert93]

i betting MS arent to disappointed in letting them go, whilst some may disagree but in reality halo3 was a major disappointment graphics-wise (perhaps due to bungie losing interest in the franchise, or theyre not so hungry for success as they once were). if i was MS i would also be looking at someone to perhaps develop a better halo4

I am sorry, but the myopia of these forums is amazing at times.

Do a better Halo? Halo 3 is one of the top 25 critically acclaimed games of the last decade and is shattering many sales records. It also broadens the series by including a host of new features.

Halo isn't necessarily my personal cup of tea, but the blinded hate of some posters is just amazing. As I wrote earlier, I really dislike some of their game mechanic decisions--total turn off. But putting my bias aside and *listening* to what critics and the millions of fans are saying, I can see that the game is very well refined (tried and true blah blah blah) at its core, has good graphics (not the very, very best, but better than most), and has done a handful of things that most other games would die to do just 1 -- like Forge, 4 player Coop, Theater, etc.

Personally, I am dissappointed graphically with almost everything on the market. Ditto gameplay. Some of the "best" games on the market are either overhyped on graphics and/or gameplay. Gears of War. Halo 3. Resistance. Motorstorm. But the relationship is to the market, and hearing how the games are received by consumers and seeing the merits of their design (even if you think they are shallow, cliche, lack vision, etc).

Reading your own disappointment into Halo 3 has nothing to do with what MS's perspective is on Halo 3. In MS's mind Halo 3 is...

* One of the top 25 critically acclaimed games of the last decade--and well received graphically.
* The best selling game this generation (give it a week or two).
* Highest first day sales ever.
* Spurring on hardware adoption.
* Gamers will be playing it for years.

I am hearing very little dissappointment from 360 fans about the game, and sales are through the roof.

Still waiting for an available developer who could take Halo 4 to new heights, shaming Bungie's Halo 3.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I am sorry, but the myopia of these forums is amazing at times.

I strongly agree on this. Bungie has delivered a polished game, free of major bugs or showstopper design problems; and added features that were praised when Phil Harrison has introduced them as "Game 3.0" and demonstrated it through LBP.
It goes to show just how biased this community has become when such a large scale and polished implementation of handling user created content is looked over in favor of scrutinizing the game of a few - and not that uncommon - technological weaknesses, and general bashing of the game.
I think I could count the really interesting posts about Halo3 on one hand.

I hope that more people will accept this observation coming from you, and all the overly depreciative comments about Halo, Bungie, and MS - as well as all the resentful whining about the failure of certain other games - will stop.

 

[Zaphod]

In MS's mind Halo 3 is...

I agree with most of your post, however, it doesn't follow from this that MS see Bungie as a necessity for this to endure. Halo 3 will be a smash hit for them wether Bungie stay or go. They've done what MS needed them to do. MS may believe, and I'm sure they do research on these things, that the franchise will do well enough without the studio that created it, and another Halo will be a couple of years down the road. Rather than investing anew in Bungie at this point in time, I can certainly see the appeal in realizing profit twice over by selling them.

 

[zed]

The different art-style to Halo would make it hard to place as the best graphics ever, because the graphics, or at least so it seems to me, have been chosen to facilitate gameplay. It's not all camouflaged brown/grey. For graphics to be a reason MS let Bungie go, in spite of record sales, would be both stupid of them and petty.

i have on these forums praised halo3's art style (with the use of bright colors) in fact i have commented about killzone2's boring use of brown/grey + that it should be more like colorful like halo3!!! (reality be damned ).
but if u objectively look at gamemag/gamesite reviews of halo3 they are much more muted about halo3's graphics than they were about halo1/2 (at the time of release), halo3's sound has generally been praised more than its graphics

game sales has more to do with marketing hype, than quality ( see a recent thread here in these forums for data )

 

[patsu]

It is not the first time people nitpick about graphics or gameplay on PS3 or Xbox 360 in this forum. Check all the high profile game threads.

Some people were complaining about Halo 3 gameplay and graphics in other fora. I don't think you can blame it on this community alone. It's a larger industry issue (of nitpicking, unrealistic expectations and narrow-mindedness/myopia). At the personal level, I have always looked past visuals (Yay).

Halo Forge sounds interesting, but I think the Halo community is focusing on their SP and MP FPS fix right now. It will come around when enough are exposed to Forge.

We will get to see LBP more in its beta form end of the year (You can create new items from raw material and behaviour). It's off topic. So I'll stop here.

 

[Nesh]

I agree with most of your post, however, it doesn't follow from this that MS see Bungie as a necessity for this to endure. Halo 3 will be a smash hit for them wether Bungie stay or go. They've done what MS needed them to do. MS may believe, and I'm sure they do research on these things, that the franchise will do well enough without the studio that created it, and another Halo will be a couple of years down the road. Rather than investing anew in Bungie at this point in time, I can certainly see the appeal in realizing profit twice over by selling them.

Of course they can still get lots of money from Halo3 even if Bungie leaves, but thats not what we are discussing.

Halo as a franchise is one of the biggest ever to appear on the market. Master Chief has become an icon, almost like a mascot for the XBOX.

It is so huge that it is impossible for MS to ignore the future prospects of the franchise.

The 360 or the next XBOX wont die with the absence of Bungie but it is obvious to MS how important Halo is to ensure strength and a more secure future.

Since Bungie are the talent and the name behind Halo it is normal and wiser to expect MS should make sure that Bungie still remains. Bungie knows how to make a proper Halo. Halo3 is almost flawless according to what I ve heard and read.

 

[archangelmorph]

Since Bungie are the talent and the name behind Halo it is normal and wiser to expect MS should make sure that Bungie still remains. Bungie knows how to make a proper Halo. Halo3 is almost flawless according to what I ve heard and read.

?

game sales has more to do with marketing hype, than quality ( see a recent thread here in these forums for data )

Halo is faaar from flawless and i'm a long time fan of the franchise..

The first game was close.. However it seems each further iteration seems to have lost something along the way..

Much of the games' critical acclaim currently is due to the hype leading up to it & the satisfaction gained from the experience of concluding the plot that many have enjoyed as a large part of the heart and soul of what made the franchise appeal to them..

Halo3 is a great game, don't get me wrong.. But it isn't the epitome of the perfect video game/holy grail by a stretch..

 

[valioso]

Considering Microsoft owns Bungie.. how can Bungie leave or split? It does not even make logical sense. Some of the people that worked on halo may, but that happens everytime a game is finished.

 

[Acert93]

It is not the first time people nitpick about graphics or gameplay on PS3 or Xbox 360 in this forum. Check all the high profile game threads.

To impose our narrow view of the industry upon Microsofts view of Bungie/Halo 3 and disregarding the response of their fans in general and the overwhelming critical response was my point.

You absolutely cannot comment on Halo 3's place in the industry based on your own personal bias. It is akin to thinking Gran Turismo is "Gran Borismo" (boring) and imposing that view as Sony's view of the franchise and on the general consumer adoption and critical reception.

Some people

You will never make all people happy. Halo 2 had a lot of dissenters, yet it sold amazingly well -- and continued to be played in droves 3 years later.

Even the BEST games get, at best, a 10% consumer adoption. Look at GTA--amazing reviews and astronomical sales. And yet only 1-in-10 PS2 owners picked it up.

Microsoft doesn't care what "some people" say. What they care about is the general reception of the software relative to the larger market.

Like I said, myopia.

Halo Forge sounds interesting, but I think the Halo community is focusing on their SP and MP FPS fix right now. It will come around when enough are exposed to Forge.

As with any editor, its value will be based on user effort and how diverse the tools are. We know the effort will be there, the question is will the tools lend themselves to the gamer's vision.

We will get to see LBP more in its beta form end of the year (You can create new items from raw material and behaviour). It's off topic. So I'll stop here.

To bring that point on topic (PS3 fans are going to be crying bloody murder when LBP is released and people keep comparing it to Forge and deleted posts will follow), this is yet another reason why Bungie is valuable to MS.

Microsoft has been pushing for the social elements of their games to progress and diversify. 1st party software is very important for crafting such a vision, building consumer expectation, and encouraging publishers to follow.

While LBP will most likely be a more robust and focused experience in regards to user generated content, gametypes, etc... it is extremely notable that Microsoft, through Bungie, was able to

a) Throw down the gauntlet, so to speak. Sony hyped it, Microsoft stole the thunder by being first.

b) Package these sort of social-sandbox tools in a Flagship application of massive appeal and adoption.

Taking a popular franchise -- one of the Top 3 in NA -- and packaging such tools first is extremely significant. I would argue MS isn't even the first to do these things--but the first to do so in a meaningful way.

The value of a company who can be progressive and execute on a grand scale, such as Bungie has with the Halo titles, isn't easily put into numbers.

When Microsoft has needed a company to provide a killer app (Halo), justify Live as a kille app (Halo 2), or deliver a timely blockbuster that broadens the social elements of gaming (Halo 3) Microsoft has been able to call on Bungie every time.

The fact Microsoft got their "counter-move" to Sony's LBP before LBP was released and packaged in the industry's biggest title released over the last 3 years is extremely significant. I will bet right now that LBP will be better than Forge, and that LBP will appeal to a totally different sort of user... but Forge will have a bigger industry impact.

Non-Halo (or specifically Halo 3) fans can be critical all they want, and can even be right, but it doesn't mean squat in regards to the impact the title is having on the general perception of Halo, the Xbox, or the strategic value Bungie brings to Microsoft.

My distaste for their core gameplay just doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

Halo is faaar from flawless and i'm a long time fan of the franchise..

Of course it is far from flawless.

Much of the games' critical acclaim currently is due to the hype leading up to it & the satisfaction gained from the experience of concluding the plot that many have enjoyed as a large part of the heart and soul of what made the franchise appeal to them..

Really?

Not every hyped game does well in sales or in critical review. Reading through the reviews I find a lot of specific comments, positive and negative, in regards to what they liked and didn't like about the game. Heck, people here were more than happy to quote specific nitpicks, many objectively valid and others subjectively valid, and most reviews cut through the hype and pointed out there are better looking console games. What I read in a lot of reviews was they had a polished game, kept the 'tried and true' core the same but extended the game in MP, coop, theater, and forge...

But specifically, based on the popularity of Halo 2 online, I think you view of "them" is too narrow. The success of Halo goes beyond the story. The Beta was extremely popular for a reason, and it wasn't just the story...

The game has many features that appeal differently to various consumers.