PS3, Holiday 2006

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

They will need to produce.

After all the reported dissapointment from playable 360's at wallmart it should be microsoft that need to produce. And dont you think the media has as much to do with PS3 hype as sony??I meen PS3 is still month's away and yet all the microsoft support's are getting so wound up over PS3 stealing 360's thunder it's gettin nigh on anoying now.Sony are market leader's and have been for the last 2 generation's and what microsoft and people dont understand is that aswel as taking on the "playstation " brand name they also have to take on the "Sony" brand name aswel. and the "Sony" name is somthing they will never defeat because there are to many casual people out there.

 

[expletive]

There's no way the Xbox 360 could come in second place. Ok there is a chance but that chance is super small. Everybody keeps forgetting that the Revolution is also coming out in 2006. MS has to beat Nintendo in Japan first.

MS sold 114 Xboxes last week in Japan. Freaking 114. Come on.

http://www.m-create.com/jpn/s_ranking.html

I said coming in second place would be a "tremendous achievement" so i'm not sure what youre trying to convince me of here exactly.

 

[mckmas8808]

I said coming in second place would be a "tremendous achievement" so i'm not sure what youre trying to convince me of here exactly.

Oh nothing. Just reading it on the screen gave me the shakes. Just bringing it up is crazy. It's all good though.

 

[Sis]

After all the reported dissapointment from playable 360's at wallmart it should be microsoft that need to produce. And dont you think the media has as much to do with PS3 hype as sony??I meen PS3 is still month's away and yet all the microsoft support's are getting so wound up over PS3 stealing 360's thunder it's gettin nigh on anoying now.Sony are market leader's and have been for the last 2 generation's and what microsoft and people dont understand is that aswel as taking on the "playstation " brand name they also have to take on the "Sony" brand name aswel. and the "Sony" name is somthing they will never defeat because there are to many casual people out there.

I find it quite humorous that:

a) you link to a System Wars thread as proof of something and
b) not only did you link to this thread, but it doesn't prove what you think it proves, as one of the first few quotes talks about how a demo both was surrounded by "casuals" who played COD2 and were "raving about how great the graphics and AI were" (and to add to the humor, this was quoted by someone disappointed in the system and explained away the 'casuals' impression by labeling them clueless).

.Sis

 

[expletive]

Oh nothing. Just reading it on the screen gave me the shakes. Just bringing it up is crazy. It's all good though.

MS aside, do you think in 2006 that Nintendo and SOny are fighting over the same customers? Asking customers to spend $400 is one thing, but asking them to spend $700 or so in consoles in a 4 month span (estimating) is a lot no? I wonder if theyll hurt each other by launching so close together.

 

[Sis]

Oh nothing. Just reading it on the screen gave me the shakes. Just bringing it up is crazy. It's all good though.

And you wonder why people think you may be completely biased and why you have the red square? The thought that the Xbox 360 would do well in Japan "gives you the shakes"?

I think there's enough fluidity in the console market to allow for the Xbox 360's success in Japan. Is it the likely possibility? Of course not. Is it a possibility? Sure. The thought of that possibility should not give you shakes nor is it crazy to suggest such a scenario.

.Sis

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

I find it quite humorous that:

a) you link to a System Wars thread as proof of something and
b) not only did you link to this thread, but it doesn't prove what you think it proves, as one of the first few quotes talks about how a demo both was surrounded by "casuals" who played COD2 and were "raving about how great the graphics and AI were" (and to add to the humor, this was quoted by someone disappointed in the system and explained away the 'casuals' impression by labeling them clueless).

.Sis

With all with-out that link, MANY MANY people are DISSAPOINTED with 360, MANY of them are SW fanboi's and there is NO bigger fanboi's than the one's present in GS SW. to simply ignore there view's about the 360 is silly after al.. name a bigger bunch of fanboi's than them??? And that does'nt prove what i think it proves??? WTF are you on. i stated that many people are DISSAPOINTED with 360 and if read all the pages on that thread you'll fiind that people are. So it proves what i was ona bout in the first place does'nt it????

 

[Sis]

With all with-out that link, MANY MANY people are DISSAPOINTED with 360, MANY of them are SW fanboi's and there is NO bigger fanboi's than the one's present in GS SW. to simply ignore there view's about the 360 is silly after al.. name a bigger bunch of fanboi's than them??? And that does'nt prove what i think it proves???

Yes, linking to opinions on the internet does not support any arguments, especially when it's to a Console Wars forum. And I was simply pointing out that even in that link is someone posting their disappiontment by way of describing some "casuals" who were obviously impressed. There is some big disconnect here that I'm missing, I suppose.

WTF are you on.

Right now, just my first cup of coffee. Catch me after my second one, I might be more amiable.

.Sis

 

[mckmas8808]

And you wonder why people think you may be completely biased and why you have the red square? The thought that the Xbox 360 would do well in Japan "gives you the shakes"?

I think there's enough fluidity in the console market to allow for the Xbox 360's success in Japan. Is it the likely possibility? Of course not. Is it a possibility? Sure. The thought of that possibility should not give you shakes nor is it crazy to suggest such a scenario.

.Sis

What are you talking about. My red box is due to some people personally not liking me. I say the same stuff many others say on here too. Also the shakes were because I didn't actually expect somebody to bring up Xbox 360, second place, and Japan in the same sentence. I would need a huge explation on why the 360 would be second place. We must have two different shakes.

 

[Titanio]

Hardknock is not the only one being "over-optimistic" here. How has Sony "crushed" the XBOX program by the way?? IMHO MS has been very successful in getting to where they are now, and continue to push Sony to do better.

Sony has not "crushed" Xbox, if only because of who is behind it - MS, who has all the resources in the world to sustain less successful ventures if it is a strategic necessity. In other companies, in other circumstance, such a resource-sink would be culled or cut back significantly (and indeed, even MS has found penny-pinching a necessity going forward).

I think people do tend to over-estimate the impact and "success" of Xbox in discussions like these. Perhaps its an American-centric viewpoint which brings this about, which is understandable. But some things to remember:

Non-playstation marketshare for the last 10 years has remained pretty static, or indeed will likely shrink by the end of this generation, despite the presence of two live competitors this gen versus arguably one in the previous gen.

No system this gen has been as successful as the most successful non-Playstation system last gen (the N64) - and few would label it a convincing success! In fact, the combined userbases of Nintendo and MS this gen only exceed by a small amount the userbase of the N64.

Now, the argument often crops up that MS was going from zero to something, and Nintendo was going from high to low, hence "there's the difference". Fair enough. But, MS has yet to demonstrate that it can break the non-Playstation marketshare beyond the level at which it has existed for many years now. Many expected they'd easily do so with Xbox, that it was inevitable the competitive marketshare would grow with two strong live competitors - and I remember many analysts predicting that the market would even end up evenly split! - but MS and Nintendo simply ended up splitting the leftovers (and those leftovers may even end up being smaller than last gen). So we enter a second generation with the same two rivals to Playstation, and they still have to prove they can grow the non-Playstation market AT ALL.

Maybe Xbox's "success" should be benchmarked against expectations for it before its entry into the market. I think its performance in the market certainly fell short of the expectations of its supporters, and most analysts. Heck, if fell short of MY expectations, and versus many others, mine were what could have been called at the time "pessimistic".

It will be this choice of something better/equal to/or comparable with the PS3 at launch that will help MS gain market share.

In terms of horsepower the difference is small to significant depending on who you listen to (though universally in PS3's favour), but as a whole, the hardware is not comparable. There are far more hardware features packed into PS3.

 

[expletive]

What are you talking about. My red box is due to some people personally not liking me. I say the same stuff many others say on here too. Also the shakes were because I didn't actually expect somebody to bring up Xbox 360, second place, and Japan in the same sentence. I would need a huge explation on why the 360 would be second place. We must have two different shakes.

My full quote was this:

To be honest, theres no way MS is beating Sony in Japan this gen. They should shoot for NA and at least being a real 'player' in Japan this generation. Coming in 2nd in Japan this gen would be a tremendous achievement imo.

So i was clearly agreeing about the difficulty of such an achievement, but if you need a reason to at least cure you of the undesireable physical reactions you have to such statements, you can start with:

1. the huge amount of japanese developer support - from the beginning - this time around
2. superior online service at the moment and likely going forward
3. superior hardware
4. HD resolutions support
5. proven and, from all accounts, superior control device

Not the end-all list but hopefully that at least stops you from shaking!

 

[mckmas8808]

My full quote was this:




So i was clearly agreeing about the difficulty of such an achievement, but if you need a reason to at least cure you of the undesireable physical reactions you have to such statements, you can start with:

1. the huge amount of japanese developer support - from the beginning - this time around
2. superior online service at the moment and likely going forward
3. superior hardware
4. HD resolutions support
5. proven and, from all accounts, superior control device

Not the end-all list but hopefully that at least stops you from shaking!

Well I was talking to Hardknock with that quote that you had from me. And really expletive do you honestly think those 5 reasons will help sell 10 times the amount of consoles per week in Japan?

Did you know that MS hasn't even reached 1 million units in Japan yet?

 

[expletive]

Now, the argument often crops up that MS was going from zero to something, and Nintendo was going from high to low, hence "there's the difference". Fair enough. But, MS has yet to demonstrate that it can break the non-Playstation marketshare beyond the level at which it has existed for many years now. Many expected they'd easily do so with Xbox, that it was inevitable the competitive marketshare would grow with two strong live competitors - and I remember many analysts predicting that the market would even end up evenly split! - but MS and Nintendo simply ended up splitting the leftovers (and those leftovers may even end up being smaller than last gen). So we enter a second generation with the same two rivals to Playstation, and they still have to prove they can grow the non-Playstation market AT ALL.

Not really fair to brush off the argument you make here with 'zero to something.' IF they fail to expand on their position this gen then yes thats fine, but until they dont they deserve a chance. Short of giving them away, you cant 'force' people to buy 20 million or so consoles - they are doing something right. Plus they have what will probably be the biggest game franchise in NA and possibly the world with Halo. Dont discount capitalization on that as well. The 'non-playstation market' you reference has only been 2 generations long and even at the beginning of YOUR sampling we saw a giant (nintendo)fall from dominance. IMO, given all thats happened in this relatively short time it doesnt even support your argument.

In terms of horsepower the difference is small to significant depending on who you listen to, but as a whole, the hardware is not comparable. There are far more features packed into PS3.

If you are going to talk about sales you cant just make up a checklist and determine 'comparable.' You have to figure out (which only actual sales numbers will bear out) what the average consumer will care about and how they determine 'comparable'. HDMI, Bluray, bluetooth, many consumers may not figure this into their purchasing decision for some time, or EVER. To you or I there may be more packed into the PS3 because we are techhies but:

1. We dont know what it will cost
2. We dont know which ones are going to be deemed 'value add' by most consumers.

 

[Titanio]

Not really fair to brush off the argument you make here with 'zero to something.' IF they fail to expand on their position this gen then yes thats fine, but until they dont they deserve a chance.

Of course. But I'm not commenting on X360. Simply Xbox performance to date.

I edited to suggest that Xbox's "success" should perhaps be judged based on its actual performance versus pre-launch expectations. Like I say up there, I think its market performance fell short of most expectations, not least those of its supporters at the time.

Plus they have what will probably be the biggest game franchise in NA and possibly the world with Halo.

How are we quantifying this, particularly "in the world"? Sales? I don't think it is, although I'd have to check. Brand recognition? Again, very doubtful.

If you are going to talk about sales you cant just make up a checklist and determine 'comparable.'

If you're asking about customer perception, we simply can't know that, and I'm not addressing that. But as an objective judgement, comparing the hardware, I simply take much issue with the characterisation that X360 will offer something either better or comparable this year, which was the poster's contention. If his point is "well people will think they're comparable", well neither he nor I can know that, so I'd prefer to stick to measureables.

 

[mckmas8808]

Not really fair to brush off the argument you make here with 'zero to something.' IF they fail to expand on their position this gen then yes thats fine, but until they dont they deserve a chance. Short of giving them away, you cant 'force' people to buy 20 million or so consoles so they are doing something right. Plus they have what will probably be the biggest game franchise in NA and possibly the world with Halo. Dont discount capitalization on that as well.

They have had a chance. That was from 2001 till know. Just because it was their first time doesn't mean they couldn't sell 100 million consoles. Others have done it before on their first try. But of course they deserve another chance. Whatever keeps Sony working harder I'm all for it.

 

[expletive]

Well I was talking to Hardknock with that quote that you had from me. And really expletive do you honestly think those 5 reasons will help sell 10 times the amount of consoles per week in Japan?

Did you know that MS hasn't even reached 1 million units in Japan yet?

Your talking about a failed product and a failed strategy. They make no secrets on how far off base they were last generation so theyre taking a different appraoch.

The support from japanese developers is enough to tell me that SEOMTHING is different this time around. Whether or not its enough, only time will tell but it seems they have a solid strategy and are in position to execute it. We'll have to wait and see its effectiveness, but it doesnt seem like any failure to improve will be from lack of planning or execution.

 

[expletive]

They have had a chance. That was from 2001 till know. Just because it was their first time doesn't mean they couldn't sell 100 million consoles. Others have done it before on their first try. But of course they deserve another chance. Whatever keeps Sony working harder I'm all for it.

Others have done it because the dominating player in THEIR generation made some of the most boneheaed, arrogant, decisions in their time and kicked the door open for competitors. Sony has made no such mistakes (wisely learning from those that let them in in the first palce) so it will clearly be an uphill battle for anyone looking to increase their market share.

EDIT:agreed on forcing companies to work harder. I think we're all better off if this console gen ends up 40-40-20.

 

[blakjedi]

That made me laugh, because R500 does'nt either.

1. You really belive that games dont use vertex shader's thus leaving R500 with all it's 48 ALU's just shading... LOL
2. I bet you £100 that 1 of the pixel shader's in RSX is more poweful than 1-2 shader's in R500
3. And also remeber that RSX has over DOULBLE the shader op's per second of R500.

uh come again dude? most of what you wrote is is either false or wishful thinking. dont go making up specs please.

 

[NavNucST3]

While people keep mentioning games, I thought at the current moment the xbox 360 had more games in development than the PS3.

I also think some in here are using internet forum math (i.e. you and 6 of your forum buddies = EVERYONE, you and four of your forum buddies = MOST, you and two of your forum buddies= MANY MANY).

I also though that the PS2 had a 20 million console head-start not 5; maybe I am thinking worldwide vs the states, I'm unsure. (edit: I think I got that impression from the Money Programme xbox special recently posted)

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

uh come again dude? most of what you wrote is is either false or wishful thinking. dont go making up specs please.

How is it wish-ful thinking??? and how have a made up spec's..please explain.