PS3 Controller Rumor (Updated)

[Shifty Geezer]

Fact: The d-pad is shitty.
A cross d-pad is okayish (though hard to press diagonals on), but if you can tell me the reasoning behind slicing up the middle I would be very grateful.

Because it conceptually divides up the controller into four seperate buttons that makes it easy to reference by an icon. I guess if you place your thumb flat on the d-pad, it feels wrong. But if you press the direction as though they are buttons, it's not much different to the other four face buttons. In most games this is how the d-pad is used, so on a DS2 controller as support buttons complimentary to the analogue stick for direction, I think it works.

 

[Nesh]

Because it conceptually divides up the controller into four seperate buttons that makes it easy to reference by an icon. I guess if you place your thumb flat on the d-pad, it feels wrong. But if you press the direction as though they are buttons, it's not much different to the other four face buttons. In most games this is how the d-pad is used, so on a DS2 controller as support buttons complimentary to the analogue stick for direction, I think it works.

Diagonal movement should be separate buttons instead of the traditional Saturn/Genesis D-pad I think.




I personally never had a problem for diagonal movement on the Dual SHock controller.But I certaintly did on the Saturn d-pad.I found the Dual Shock more accurate.

 

[Squeak]

If you are playing a hectic game you don't have time to meticulously lift your thumb and put it down on another button. You slide the thumb around the pad or place it in the middle and tilt your finger around. The split design makes that very difficult and/or painful.
If the idea is so damn good, why not have four round buttons on both sides of the pad, for even better symmetry?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't have a problem resting my thumb there and sliding my thumb around that I know of, but it's not something I do often. I can't think of any games I have that use the d-pad. I always use the analogue stick. Except Tekken which I press like a button, except doing rotations around the pad. It's just not something I find a problem with, and of course there's no one design that'll serve every purpose. A D-pad better designed for movement, like a full SEGA pad, won't be as good as individual buttons. And I think DS2's D-Pad sees a lot more use as four buttons than as directional controls, though they didn't break it into four face buttons like the other side because it still needs some directional use I guess. A fair compromise by my estimation. I also imagine they couldn't use a solid cross because Nintendo have presumably patented it.

 

[Nesh]

If you are playing a hectic game you don't have time to meticulously your lift thumb and put it down on another button. You slide the thumb around the pad or place it in the middle and tilt your finger around. The split design makes that very difficult and/or painful.
If the idea is so damn good, why not have four round buttons on both sides of the pad, for even better symmetry?

Tried it..For example lets say my finger is on the right direction and want to move diaconically upwards to the right.Often my hand slipped slightly more upwards(executing accidentally UP instead of diagonal upwards to the right) or not enough diagonically resulting to special move failure for games like for example Virtua Fighter.
Never had that problem or hurt my finger with the DS though
I manage better Tekken and Virtua Fighter with that D-pad

 

[MechanizedDeath]

Meh, no point in the debate until it's actually held. I mean, the layout has stayed the same. The ergonomics of the new shape should be the only concern, and that's just gotta be held first. I am a bit worried that it hasn't been held by any journalists to date, though. But it's not like the Revmote, which is a complete departure from the norm. I can't understand badmouthing the batarang on appearances alone. PEACE.

 

[Brimstone]

Because it conceptually divides up the controller into four seperate buttons that makes it easy to reference by an icon. I guess if you place your thumb flat on the d-pad, it feels wrong. But if you press the direction as though they are buttons, it's not much different to the other four face buttons. In most games this is how the d-pad is used, so on a DS2 controller as support buttons complimentary to the analogue stick for direction, I think it works.

You are right the d-pad is used on for four directions in the majority of games and even then it used to compliment the dual analog sticks.


A click wheel like on the Apple iPods might work out to be a better intuitive mechanism. You can click the wheel in four different directions and can spin it either left or right. In a first person shooter when you lean you spin the wheel dial to the left so you can lean left. Games really don't take advantage of using diagonal commands, so even though 8 directions is possible, 4 are really used in games so why not replace it something like the Apple iPod wheel?

I'm a big believer that the stick layout of the Xbox controller is a better design than the closely placed dual thumb sticks on the Sony dual shock controller. The big advantage besides comfort is the d-pad area is very accessable to be used quickly and easily during a game.

 

[PARANOiA]

A click wheel like on the Apple iPods might work out to be a better intuitive mechanism. You can click the wheel in four different directions and can spin it either left or right. In a first person shooter when you lean you spin the wheel dial to the left so you can lean left. Games really don't take advantage of using diagonal commands, so even though 8 directions is possible, 4 are really used in games so why not replace it something like the Apple iPod wheel?

What if you have to keep walking forward in a game? Keep the wheel scrolling over and over and over and over. Yuck.

 

[Brimstone]

What if you have to keep walking forward in a game? Keep the wheel scrolling over and over and over and over. Yuck.

What?

You still have the two analog sticks for your left and right thumbs. I was referring to replacing the d-pad with the Apple iPod wheel and placing it in the same spot as the d-pad is on X-Box controllers.

 

[PARANOiA]

I know what you mean, but there's many many games where holding the D-Pad is necessary. A scroller to replace it wouldn't work in those situations.

 

[Apoc]

I'll say it again: It's not that the D-Pad is bad, is that it's where the analog should be. This make the analog very hard to use, Try playing a fps using the ps2 analog and the xbox controller-s analog, is like night and day. Swap the analog and the d-pad and they are perfect.

 

[typoEDR]

I'll say it again: It's not that the D-Pad is bad, is that it's where the analog should be. This make the analog very hard to use, Try playing a fps using the ps2 analog and the xbox controller-s analog, is like night and day. Swap the analog and the d-pad and they are perfect.

I've never had an issue with the placement of the analog sticks. Granted, the XBox's layout makes FPSs a hell of a lot better, but game that use the D-pad (or should use the D-pad) become affected (whereas on the PS2, it's like the SNES pad).

I think the sticks should stay where they are, but dammit, copy the indented analog stick like the XBox. I love those analog sticks.

 

[hey69]

I'll say it again: It's not that the D-Pad is bad, is that it's where the analog should be. This make the analog very hard to use, Try playing a fps using the ps2 analog and the xbox controller-s analog, is like night and day. Swap the analog and the d-pad and they are perfect.

I never understood this.. i owned both consoles and never experienced some weird feeling with the plasement of the left analog stick..

probably my left hand is gay or something.. yeah tastes are different

 

[Lord Darkblade]

A lot of people prefer the DS2 layout to the S layout, its all personal preference as to which is better... my hands fit the DS correctly (the analogs are in my thumbs rest positions- possibly years of typing on a keyboard ) and the S feels weird, unbalanced.

 

[Powderkeg]

I never understood this.. i owned both consoles and never experienced some weird feeling with the plasement of the left analog stick..

probably my left hand is gay or something.. yeah tastes are different

When you hold your hands in the completely relaxed position, do your thumbs not touch the 2nd knuckle of your index finger?

If not you've got some freaky monkey hands because that is where virtually every normal human beings thumbs are when relaxed.


So, using that as your basis, if you place a controller in your hand while it is completely relaxed the primary control (Thumbstick in this case) should be placed under the thumb, which means it should be located near the 2nd knuckle of the index finger.

Where the DS's thumbstick is located requires you to rotate your thumb about 45 degrees away from it's naturally relaxed position, and that causes stress on the muscles and tendons and could result in future hand problems including carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

[hey69]

yeah i have freaking monkey hands... dude you are way overexagerating

 

[MechanizedDeath]

The analog placement of the DS doesn't really have a negative effect on analog or digital control. The analog placement on the GC and XB controllers makes the d-pad fairly worthless. I don't mind the layout of the DS. If they swapped the d-pad and analog, I wouldn't be too bugged, though I probably wouldn't buy many fighters. There's very little wrong with the DS. Just fix the tension on the sticks and go back to concave sticks. The convex ones are slippery. PEACE.

 

[Powderkeg]

yeah i have freaking monkey hands... dude you are way overexagerating

You must have freaking monkey hands, because this is how a normal human's hands are:

And yes, you would need monkey hands for the D-Pad to end up under your thumb in it's natural position.

 

[rabidrabbit]

You must notice, that at least when you look at the Dual Shock 3, your arms would seem to settle to a more 90 degrees angle when you hold it, which is pretty much the natural position when you rest your arms in your lap. Also your wrists need not be angled, and then your thumbs indeed fall naturally on the analog sticks.
Were the analog sticks positioned on the DS upper, in place of the cross controller, then the "fins" would also need to be angled more inwards, as in the xbox360 controller, making the general outline of the controlle more "square" than the "wider at the bottom" as it is. But at the same time it would put your wrists in an angle.

In your pic Powderkeg, you don't seem to be holding the controller as you would when you are playing, somehow it looks like you've just put the controller in your hand so that the analog falls under your thumb in that position, instead of putting your hand on the controller. You seem to be holding it too much from the edge, shouldn't it be held more "firmly"?

In DS2 the analog sticks might not be in such an ideal position, but already there, the current position is anyway more natural than if they were upper (at least to my hands).
The shape and the angle of the "fins" do indeed make a big difference as to whare your fingers position themselves when you hold the controller. Even small alterations in the angles and contours would make a big difference in ergonomics. Therefore a controller should not be critisized or praised too much if one has not actually held and played with said controller.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You must notice, that at least when you look at the Dual Shock 3, your arms would seem to settle to a more 90 degrees angle when you hold it, which is pretty much the natural position when you rest your arms in your lap. Also your wrists need not be angled, and then your thumbs indeed fall naturally on the analog sticks.
Were the analog sticks positioned on the DS upper, in place of the cross controller, then the "fins" would also need to be angled more inwards, as in the xbox360 controller, making the general outline of the controlle more "square" than the "wider at the bottom" as it is. But at the same time it would put your wrists in an angle.

In your pic Powderkeg, you don't seem to be holding the controller as you would when you are playing, somehow it looks like you've just put the controller in your hand so that the analog falls under your thumb in that position, instead of putting your hand on the controller. You seem to be holding it too much from the edge, shouldn't it be held more "firmly"?

In DS2 the analog sticks might not be in such an ideal position, but already there, the current position is anyway more natural than if they were upper (at least to my hands).
The shape and the angle of the "fins" do indeed make a big difference as to whare your fingers position themselves when you hold the controller. Even small alterations in the angles and contours would make a big difference in ergonomics. Therefore a controller should not be critisized or praised too much if one has not actually held and played with said controller.

Sorry but I agree with powderkeg, the L analog stick goes under my thumb in a normal rest position with the xbox360 controller, to get the L analog stick under my thumb with the DS I need to stretch my thumb down.

I was going to add my own picture for you with both DS and xbox360 but it seems the batteries in my camera are dead.

<edit> I should also mention that your hand does need to be to the side/on the edge of the xbox360 controller if you want to be able to reach the trigger with your index finger.