A Sony controller patent: Wireless PS3 Glove controller?

[PC-Engine]

According to Phil Harrison, the menu system of the PS3 would use some kind of hand device like in minority report which this patent obvious describes. My question is, after you navigate the menu are you supposed to put this device down and pickup a controller?

 

[London Geezer]

The whole Minority Report thing is definately doable (minus the holograms and stuff), i just don't know what kind of games would benefit from it. Surely not all of them, although it would be nice to see how it could be implemented anyway. Kinda like Nintendo "forcing" devs to come up with ideas to use the second screen in DS, it would be nice to see Sony making the glove thing standard and leave it to the devs to come up with ideas to control the games...

For one, it would rather easily eliminate the need of the driving wheel for racing games (that is, if "motion tracking" were to be used)...

 

[PC-Engine]

I think your arms would get really tired after only a few minutes of holding them up in the air trying to hold a virtual steering wheel.

 

[rabidrabbit]

You wouldn't necessarily have to put those "palm spiders" down. Depending how ergonomic they are, I don't see much difficulty keeping them on while holding a controller. A bit like using the controller with cycling gloves on (you know, those without the fingers). Not as comfortable as without, but useable nonetheless.
They would at the same time function as a soft padding against the controller handles
That is not likely though.

...For one, it would rather easily eliminate the need of the driving wheel for racing games (that is, if "motion tracking" were to be used)...

I would miss the force feed-back function, which would be very difficult to do in motion tracking system.
A force feedback in those "palm spiders" would be nice too. Imagine grabbing an object in virtual world. The glove would close only as much as to the size of the object, it could even simulate the hardness of the object by altering the damping.

 

[London Geezer]

I think your arms would get really tired after only a few minutes of holding them up in the air trying to hold a virtual steering wheel.

Maybe YOUR arms, u wimp...

 

[j^aws]

Didn't know Sony talked about a minority report type interface... is there a link to that article?

Here it is.
Link to Polygonmag

Thanks for the link...

Where's the text part of that patent?

rabidrabbit, the links at the top of my first post, but here it is again,

Link to patent Hand-held computer interactive device.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Thanks, I noticed the link after it was too late.

 

[Fafalada]

For one, it would rather easily eliminate the need of the driving wheel for racing games (that is, if "motion tracking" were to be used)...

Except that feeling the wheel in your hands is something you normally want from a racing game, so that isn't the best replacement.
I would see myself pretending to hold a 'virtual gun' for a FPS this way though... Heck feedback could actually simulate trigger pressing on the gun, and tracking could be used to aim, one glove for weapon, while the other glove controls motion etc.

The motion tracking/gesture recognition could also be the perfect interface for strategy games of any kind (by this I mean tracking of small movements that doesn't require waving around like a moron ).

 

[London Geezer]

Except that feeling the wheel in your hands is something you normally want from a racing game, so that isn't the best replacement.

Get a plate from the kitchen! Use that for support

 

[Squeak]

You wouldn't necessarily have to put those "palm spiders" down. Depending how ergonomic they are, I don't see much difficulty keeping them on while holding a controller. A bit like using the controller with cycling gloves on (you know, those without the fingers). Not as comfortable as without, but useable nonetheless.
They would at the same time function as a soft padding against the controller handles

If it really worked, all you would ever really need would be dummy controllers (maybe with a forcefeedback motor).

But I see three problems with this invention. One is sideways motion of the fingers, which is really needed if it is supposed to fully replace a traditional joypad. Your fingers would way to easily slip of the "protrusion" (as they call it in the patent) if you moved it sideways. Another problem is that the spring force of the protrusion only works one way, which again makes it unsuited for simulating an analog stick.
Thirdly, for the user to be able to firmly hold the device, the spring force in the protrusions would need to be quite strong, but that in turn would make it tiresome to use for longer periods.

And Jaws, actually I think David_South#1 was the first who discovered the patent (on this board at least): http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=253507&highlight=glove#253507

 

[j^aws]

For one, it would rather easily eliminate the need of the driving wheel for racing games (that is, if "motion tracking" were to be used)...

Except that feeling the wheel in your hands is something you normally want from a racing game, so that isn't the best replacement.
I would see myself pretending to hold a 'virtual gun' for a FPS this way though... Heck feedback could actually simulate trigger pressing on the gun, and tracking could be used to aim, one glove for weapon, while the other glove controls motion etc.

The patent has suggested force-feedback through the digits and palm via TOUCHENGINE!

[0037] External input device 100 of FIG. 3 is enabled to provide low latency tactile/haptic feedback to the fingers, thumb and palm of a user's hand through vibrators 120a-120g positioned within the external input device. In one embodiment, the haptic/tactile feedback is provided through a TOUCHENGINE.TM. tactile/haptic interface component consisting of an actuator and controlling unit.Of course, any tactile/haptic interface component, either manufactured especially for the present embodiment, or one that can be engineered from outside supplier hardware and/or software may be used. In another embodiment, each protrusion 112a-112e and central body 116 include at least one vibrator for providing low latency haptic/tactile feedback. Each protrusion is enabled to measure pressure at: (a) the fingertip, (b) calculate the flex of the finger, and (c) stimulate the finger with patterned vibrations. The surface of the protrusion that contacts the user's hand is, in one embodiment, rubberized to give the user a secure and comfortable grip. In yet another embodiment, the number of protrusions can be varied so that, for example, only the thumb and first two fingers are sensed and the user could grip the bottom part of the input device with the remaining two fingers. It should be appreciated that since the hand makes up a large part of expressive ability, it is well suited to communicate information to a computing device. It should be appreciated that the protrusions may be composed of any suitable material that can be deformed and subsequently returned to a natural position once the force causing the deformation is released. As used herein, the terms tactile and haptic are interchangeable as both terms refer to a sense of touch.

And Jaws, actually I think David_South#1 was the first who discovered the patent (on this board at least):

Thanks Squeak for the cross ref...

 

[ChryZ]

I am sure, Konami will give the term "air guitar" a whole new meaning

 

[Fafalada]

Get a plate from the kitchen! Use that for support

That actually doesn't sound half bad - ship games with plastic kitchen utensils to simulate various "controllers" hohoho.

Imagine dinning ware with "TOUCHENGINE(tm) compatible" logo on them

 

[Guden Oden]

Everybody keeps mentioning Minority Report, FFS, didn't ANY of you guys watch Johnny Mnemonic??? Ok, so it was a pretty crappy movie (though Dolph Lundgren was awesome. "It's Jesus-time!") Although, Minority Report wasn't too good either I might add. (And isn't it a funny coincidence both movies has a Swedish actor in it? )

I read about optic fibres that could sense bending, I guess that's what they would use here. If they made the digits of the "palm spiders" (damn, that's a cool concept!) out of molded silicone rubber, they would bend easily without tiring the hand, yet spring back to their original shape immediately as soon as force was not applied.

I would see myself pretending to hold a 'virtual gun' for a FPS this way though... Heck feedback could actually simulate trigger pressing on the gun, and tracking could be used to aim, one glove for weapon, while the other glove controls motion etc.

I would prefer an actual gun to hold in my hand, that would also make tracking easier for the console. I also want to be able to switch mags in it when I run out of ammo, and do a proper cocking motion... That'd totally rule. Problem is, I'd need at least three different prop guns to cover a wide enough range of popular FPS weapons; revolver, pistol, SMG. And that's not counting the shoulder-mounted RPG or minigun...

 

[Squeak]

Everybody keeps mentioning Minority Report, FFS, didn't ANY of you guys watch Johnny Mnemonic??? Ok, so it was a pretty crappy movie (though Dolph Lundgren was awesome. "It's Jesus-time!") Although, Minority Report wasn't too good either I might add. (And isn't it a funny coincidence both movies has a Swedish actor in it? )

Or further back still, the Lawnmover Man, again a crappish movie with some interesting ideas in it.

I read about optic fibres that could sense bending,

VPL data glove?

I guess that's what they would use here. If they made the digits of the "palm spiders" (damn, that's a cool concept!) out of molded silicone rubber, they would bend easily without tiring the hand, yet spring back to their original shape immediately as soon as force was not applied.

I'm not convinced that you would be able to maintain a good grip on such a device. And still what about games that call for precise 3d movement?

 

[Guden Oden]

Or further back still, the Lawnmover Man, again a crappish movie with some interesting ideas in it.

The actor whatsisname who played Jobe was great even though the plot itself was fairly dodgy.

I read about optic fibres that could sense bending,

VPL data glove?

Don't think it was an actual product, it was just a tech article about using optical fibres to sense bending motions.

I not convinced that you would be able to maintain a good grip on such a device.

There could be loops that fit around the fingers you know.

And still what about games that call for precise 3d movement.?

Yeah, what about it? That's what you have an eyetoy-like camera for. The glove is only meant to sense finger positions...

 

[ChryZ]

The movie Johnny Mnemonic was based on a short story by William Gibson. That 31 pages short story was written in 1981 (!). Gibson most famous series was the Neromancer trilogy (Neuromancer 1984, Count Zero 1986, Mona Lisa Overdrive 1988). The more stuff I hear about Sony's future plans, the more, it seems to me, that they'll try to implement, what happend in those books ... btw those books are quite enjoyable, at least IMHO

 

[maskrider]

Or further back still, the Lawnmover Man, again a crappish movie with some interesting ideas in it.

The actor whatsisname who played Jobe was great even though the plot itself was fairly dodgy.

I think the film is rather interesting for the time of its release.

Remember Jobe said, "Cyboman !!! ..." when he saw the monkey.

Anyway, I will wait until I really can sense the thing in my hand and see the interface before giving my comment on it.

I had been dreaming of the VR controller since I saw it in films many years ago.

 

[thop]

 

[London Geezer]

Minority Report was a much better movie than Johnny Mnemonic was. And this is from someone who is romantically involved with Keanu Reeves.