Pricing Discussions around AMD VEGA *over-flow*

[Kaotik]

On the slides of the pack launches.

As part of a "pack". Radeon Pack is 100 or 200 more expensive than just the card, depending if you take air or water cooled version. If you don't want discounted hardware, you still get the games when you buy Pack-version, but you don't get them if you buy just the card.
When you buy a Pack, you buy a Pack, even if you just want the card, and you get 2 games with it. You also get the right for the discounts, but if you don't use the chance you paid for, it's your problem, not theirs.

 

[Mize]

...and all this discussion, debate and clarification demonstrates exactly why this was piss-poor marketing.

 

[Picao84]

I

As part of a "pack". Radeon Pack is 100 or 200 more expensive than just the card, depending if you take air or water cooled version. If you don't want discounted hardware, you still get the games when you buy Pack-version, but you don't get them if you buy just the card.
When you buy a Pack, you buy a Pack, even if you just want the card, and you get 2 games with it. You also get the right for the discounts, but if you don't use the chance you paid for, it's your problem, not theirs.

On the bold part:
Making the games effectively not free!

 

[3dilettante]

Maybe AMD changes their mind, given the apparently unexpectedly high demand, they might just distribute their profit over more units. Defy Convention and Join the Rebellion!

If the retailer statements like the one from Overclockers UK are accurate, the low ceiling for the internal rebates seems to indicate even disappointing demand would not change the picture at present.
Not knowing the cost structure of Overclockers UK or others, there could be a number of ways this current scenario can occur. If their cost and price model are not notably worse than others, and the statement that without the rebate the standalone model is not considered sustainable then the question becomes whether the launch rebate continues in some form for when the standalone SKUs are restocked or the internal pricing is set to decrease soon.

If a preliminary product offer is not sustainable, I think it would be more appropriate if reviews reflect that there is a difference between marketing and the de facto price.

You mean that now miners not only will get the VGAs but also discount in items that they can sell at nearly full price on ebay later? thats a bargain.

I'm under the impression that the greatest impact on the market would be the set of miners that hoover up a massive number of cards. It would require more overhead and attention to find and transact a large amount of software/hardware, or distribute the vouchers/coupons.

 

[CarstenS]

If a preliminary product offer is not sustainable, I think it would be more appropriate if reviews reflect that there is a difference between marketing and the de facto price.

I think the majority of reviews are taking actual market prices into account. It gets a little tricky with NDA reviews though, where you are operating in good faith with the information that was given to you beforehand. And yes, I did put that in italics intentionally.

 

[3dilettante]

I think the majority of reviews are taking actual market prices into account. It gets a little tricky with NDA reviews though, where you are operating in good faith with the information that was given to you beforehand. And yes, I did put that in italics intentionally.

I would even be fine with reviews prices being inflated due to demand since the time , and it's not that I'm assigning blame since some reviewers have stated they didn't know. It would make their reviews unknowingly more positive as far as product value goes for the standalone offering, perhaps enough to amend that portion if there's no realistic means for the price recommended to be maintained.

The part where retailers are saying they really wouldn't be making money on a product without a one-time rebate makes me concerned AMD's cutting things very close, since that scenario happens with or without miners.

 

[xEx]

I


On the bold part:
Making the games effectively not free!

Yes they are! you only need to spend a 100 more dollars and save 120!! idk how Nvidia could fight such an incredible strategy!

 

[Geeforcer]

Yes they are! you only need to spend a 100 more dollars and save 120!! idk how Nvidia could fight such an incredible strategy!

*save $90. FTFY.

 

[Malo]

Well Prey is on sale at the moment for 50% off as of a couple of days ago, which doesn't really help things. Great timing there by Bethesda, I see the marketing agreement with AMD is working very well.

 

[Kaotik]

Yes they are! you only need to spend a 100 more dollars and save 120!! idk how Nvidia could fight such an incredible strategy!

How hard is the concept to understand.
Let's say you go to a burger joint, you can buy a meal for 5 USD and bigger version of the meal + toy for 6 USD. You can choose to pick the bigger version of the meal + toy but just eat as much as the normal version of the meal would have, or you could eat the whole thing - regardless of how much you eat you still pay that 6 USD.
Same thing here, you can either wait for the "card only" SKUs to come back to stock, or buy the "radeon pack" and pay $100 extra - you get the free games + the discounts, regardless if you use the discounts or not

 

[Malo]

Same thing here, you can either wait for the "card only" SKUs to come back to stock, or buy the "radeon pack" and pay $100 extra - you get the free games + the discounts, regardless if you use the discounts or not

It doesn't really help either that all the bundle SKUs are left on the shops (though out of stock of course) but the base card SKUs are nowhere to be found.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Same thing here, you can either wait for the "card only" SKUs to come back to stock, or buy the "radeon pack" and pay $100 extra - you get the free games + the discounts, regardless if you use the discounts or not

Isn't Gibbo saying selling "card only" SKU's at $499 can't be done because it is below their cost?

Gibson has told us that with the new MSRP now in place and stock levels fluctuating, we could see RX Vega64 sell for anywhere between £549 and £649, with the £449 price tag being ruled out entirely:

"£449 is not possible, $499 is below what they cost us direct from the board partners by a large chunk of cash, AMD rebated us to hit $499 on a set amount of units. As such $599 is now the minimum”.
“Unfortunately AMD did not make the launch pricing plan clear at all to the press or the consumer, which has caused a lot of confusion, if we could sell cards at £449 and make money, they’d be at that price. If that was the case we probably would have sold around 5,000 units now at OcUK, whereas the reality is we’ve sold a little over 1000”.

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...-gibson-clears-up-rx-vega64-pricing-disaster/

 

[Kaotik]

Isn't Gibbo saying selling "card only" SKU's at $499 can't be done because it is below their cost?

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...-gibson-clears-up-rx-vega64-pricing-disaster/

There's something strange going on with the AIB prices ATM, but I'm sure it will settle down soon enough. AMD at least is saying they're working to bring all the SKUs back to the shops.
I'm guessing no AIB is currently shipping anything but the bundle-versions though, which could explain what Gibbo is saying.

For what it's worth, currently AIBs are apparently asking a lot higher price for shipping to Finland even compared to what the bundle-SKUs cost elsewhere, so there's definitely something strange going on - and I don't actually want to discount the possibility that miners might be at fault - we know they've actually rented 747's to ship cards straight to them from AIBs, they could be doing same again and AIBs just hike up the price for everyone in the process

 

[Kaotik]

That statement is about stocks and previous prices. It is not possible to conclude anything about future prices. However, we have already several sources, including AIBs, on this thread saying that the 499 was the launch price and the normal price will be 599.

I don't understand how you can read it like that. The way I read it, they clearly state price for each SKU and then say they're working on getting all SKUs back in stock

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Are you being obtuse on purpose or what? They state FREE games. If the pack which includes the games is more expensive than the stand alone cards, the games are NOT free. What is so hard to understand?

I'm so sorry that you were unable to comprehend that couple of slides.
1- Pack = card + discounts + games.
2- Pack != stand-alone card.
3- As predicted, stand-alone cards went out of stock much earlier than packs.

There's really no simpler way to explain this, other than resort to @Kaotik 's McBurguer vs. McMenu analogy.
You either get it or you don't. Regardless, this topic is futile.

 

[Picao84]

I'm so sorry that you were unable to comprehend that couple of slides.
1- Pack = card + discounts + games.
2- Pack != stand-alone card.
3- As predicted, stand-alone cards went out of stock much earlier than packs.

There's really no simpler way to explain this, other than resort to @Kaotik 's McBurguer vs. McMenu analogy.
You either get it or you don't. Regardless, this topic is futile.

I'm so sorry that your reading comprehension is severely lacking. Go read my posts again. Nowhere did I said that Packs == Stand Alone Cards. What I have been saying all along is that the games are not for free! The price of the games is obviously included in the bundle! That example of the burger joint only further proves the point: to get the toy, you pay more! Stop going in circles and trying to avoid my point! Do you agree or not that the games are anything but free on the packs? Its logic 101.

 

[Picao84]

How hard is the concept to understand.
Let's say you go to a burger joint, you can buy a meal for 5 USD and bigger version of the meal + toy for 6 USD. You can choose to pick the bigger version of the meal + toy but just eat as much as the normal version of the meal would have, or you could eat the whole thing - regardless of how much you eat you still pay that 6 USD.
Same thing here, you can either wait for the "card only" SKUs to come back to stock, or buy the "radeon pack" and pay $100 extra - you get the free games + the discounts, regardless if you use the discounts or not

Yes I get the concept fine. But you will not convince me that who ever buys those packs is not paying for the games. They obviously are.

 

[xEx]

How hard is the concept to understand.
Let's say you go to a burger joint, you can buy a meal for 5 USD and bigger version of the meal + toy for 6 USD. You can choose to pick the bigger version of the meal + toy but just eat as much as the normal version of the meal would have, or you could eat the whole thing - regardless of how much you eat you still pay that 6 USD.
Same thing here, you can either wait for the "card only" SKUs to come back to stock, or buy the "radeon pack" and pay $100 extra - you get the free games + the discounts, regardless if you use the discounts or not

That would be the case if the "normal" price woulndt have a very low stock...This is a case of false advertising unless AMD plans to sell the vega cards alone with their mrsp in the short tern future.

 

[Anarchist4000]

Yes I get the concept fine. But you will not convince me that who ever buys those packs is not paying for the games. They obviously are.

There is very little that ever comes "free". It's always being paid for somewhere. Games were added to the bundles to sweeten the deal, I have no idea how this debate ever started as the concept seems simple. Buy monitor or CPU bundle and get two games thrown in. Pretty simple.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

What I have been saying all along is that the games are not for free!

I gather you must get up every saturday and sunday morning to go protest at your local McDonald's because the free toy they give out with Happy Meals isn't really free.. because if you don't want the fries and drink then the Happy Meal is more expensive than a cheeseburger.
And at afternoon you must go protest in front of your local electronics store who sell a Surface Pro + keyboard combo and then offer the surface pen for free, but if you're not going to use the keyboard then the pen isn't free anymore.
And in the evening you must go protest in front of your local Toys'R'Us who are giving away a free doll if you buy a RC car and a RC boat, because if you don't need the boat then the car+doll is less expensive if bought separately, so the doll isn't free anymore.


How harsh must be the life of a semantics activist...