Building a PC with XB1X specs *spawn

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by Rangers, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Rangers

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    I see a thread on GAF "can you build a PC equivalent to Scorpio for the same price". So for fun I ran through it real quick. My PC components knowledge is not too up to date, but it was fun and here's what I came up with and newegg pricing. Then a bunch of caveats.

    CPU: X4 860K (4 kaveri? cores at 3.7 ghz) $45
    GPU: RX580 8GB $260 (GTX 1060 6GB=$249)
    Motherboard: MSI Micro ATX (all the cheapest boards are Micro ATX) $47
    RAM: X4 860K takes DDR3, so, 2X4GB=8GB DDR3 1600=$50
    Case=$25 (generic basic mid ATX)
    M/KB=$15 (I searched this out, this is decent Logitech brand combo)
    PSU= Brand name 500 watt=$35
    CPU Cooler: basic model =$10

    Grand Total=$487 (no copy of Windows)

    Now the many caveats and discussions...

    For the CPU I just assumed 4 kaveri (I believe) cores at 3.7 ghz (the X4 860K) are probably equivalent in power at least to 8 2.3 ghz Jaguar cores. This might not be directly true but close enough right?

    The GPU requires some discussion, all the AMD GPU's, or at least every 580/480 on newegg, is sold out. At first I was puzzled. Then I remembered bitcoin is going through another bubble. Yep, I'm guessing cryptomining means you cannot find an enthusiast AMD GPU anywhere. Further, a little reading showed RX 580 MSRP is 229. The prices are high because of mining as well. I used the list price on newegg of the cheapest 8GB RX 580, which was 259. However you cant actually buy one. If things were "normal", you should be able to find an 8GB RX 580 for 229, probably even less, shaving some cost. An RX 570 might be another interesting option, it comes in at 5.1 TF I believe, I'm not sure if it's currently any more available than the 580, but if you got an 8GB 570 and overclocked it, you might get your 6 AMD TF cheaper, again under normal price circumstances. A substitute is a 6GB Nvidia 1060, as they perform about the same in PC tests (then again 1060 is significantly less flops, and while that might not matter on PC, on console where every flop might be utilized, it might). You aren't saving much though, as cheapest 6GB 1060's run about 249. At least you can actually buy one though, so if you were building this system today it would have to be your choice.

    Given the X1X sports 12GB unified GDDR RAM, ignoring the myriad complexities involved that will never allow a true match, I figured a 8GB system RAM+8GB video card PC best reflects RAM parity. So that was the reason for those choices.

    I assumed you own a monitor and speakers. I guess this is fair enough as we assume you own a TV for the console.

    Two remaining big issues though. First, a copy of Windows. That's going to run you ~$100 if you dont already have one. Assuming you dont do some gray market and/or piracy thing.

    Second, a UHD Blu Ray drive. That's again going to blow up your costs, I dont even know the pricing but last I heard, a lot. However do you really need this? Not for strictly PC gaming, no. It's very niche use case. However for the strict comparison, it is a point in XBX's favor.

    If AMD cards weren't caught in a crypto bubble, the MSRP on a 4GB RX 570 is $169. You could probably get an 8GB version in normal times for I'm going to assume $190, possibly even less. That would reduce our base component cost to $417. So at that point you could squeeze in a legit full fat Windows copy and you could still come out near $500, albeit with no Blu Ray. And assuming you can OC the 570 to hit 6 TF or close enough. You cant seem to do this with Nvidia cards. Below the 1060 sits the 1050 Ti which is not close in performance and only comes in 4GB. Above is the 1070 which is way more expensive.

    So the final answer is "it depends" but you can certainly get close, or could but for the crypto bubble.

    Oh and also, you wouldn't want to actually build this contrived box. In reality you'd spend a couple hundred more on the CPU and motherboard and get a platform that is going to last a bit.

    And lets avoid any PC v Console debate. This was just a thought exercise on the limited topic.

    Final conclusion: If AMD cards weren't currently in a cryptobubble, yes you could build something similar to a X1X for around $500 using a cheap overclocked 8GB RX 570 and X4 860K+8GB DDR3 platform, including a $90 OEM copy of Windows too, sans UHD drive. Given the current cryptobubble though, you probably cant (if you include Windows 10).
     
    #1 Rangers, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
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  2. Silent_Buddha

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    Some things to consider as well.

    Some console ports don't work with KB/M so you're going to have to buy a console controller.

    CPU requirements for PC are going to be higher than the equivalent console just due to the OS. Even more so if it's using Dx11 instead of Dx12 or Vulkan. And most titles are still ported using Dx11. You'll probably have to beef up the CPU to achieve similar performance in 4k.

    Using a 15 USD keyboard and mouse combo will be like gaming with a cheap 10-15 USD console controller. It can be done, but not as pleasant as using something of an equivalent quality to the default controller that comes with a console.

    You also forgot the HDD Storage. 40-50 USD for a 500 GB HDD. But 1 TB HDDs are the same price so might as well go with that instead.

    There are reports that one of the LG drives can read UHD discs, but can't play UHD movies yet. It costs 60 USD on Amazon.

    Adding those costs (including OS) to your price brings it up to 687-737 (depending on the quality of the controller you buy).

    And then finally, assuming you get roughly equivalent hardware specs, you're still going to have a harder time playing at equivalent to console settings due to PC/OS/API overhead. And that isn't even counting that the GPU in the Rx580 is significantly worse than the GPU in the XBO-X for 4k (customizations make it Polaris+ especially with customizations to move more CPU dependent stuff onto the GPU which a stock Polaris GPU can't do).

    You basically have to build a PC much more powerful than the XBO-X to play games at similar settings at similar framerates. In other words, the system as you have it is highly unlikely to match the performance of the XBO-X in games. That system will be good for playing games at 1080p. Not so much at 4k, even at console level settings.

    And of course, if you go cheap on the controller, keyboard, and mouse to get closer to console prices, you're also going to have a less than console gaming experience which kind of defeats the purpose, no?

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  3. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    If a person plans to play some PC exclusive games, then they need a PC regardless of this thought game and its silly intentions. I don't think buying some hand-picked budget hardware just to reach some imaginary parity is a good idea. Just get a console and be happy. Easier warranty coverage, etc.
     
    #3 swaaye, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  4. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    PSU for $35? shit you guys got it good in the states.
    This PC won't cut it imo. That CPU is gonna be murdered.
     
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  5. mpg1

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    If you give a shit about form factor don't even bother..
     
  6. entity279

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    This exercise is a bit pointless since such a build will need to fight off both the discounts that a large corporation gets when ordering parts to be mass produced, and the fact that said corporation is usually fine to sell the hardware itself at a loss.

    I think is generally not to be expected for a PC to match a console in price. So if one needs a PC only to play console games, she should buy a console.
     
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  7. ToTTenTranz

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    That breakdown seems right but as mentioned above it's missing a hard drive.
    Perhaps this exercise would be best done in November when the XBoneX comes out? If the mining craze is over the RX 580 8GB might be available for a bit less than $250
    I guess the Ryzen 3 CPUs should be available by then. There won't be any $45 Ryzen for sure, but AMD will eventually need to find something within that price bracket for socket AM4 to counter the Pentium and Celeron CPUs. They'll need to transition the Athlon brand to AM4 and DDR4 at some point, as it's embarrassing enough to require DDR3 at this day and age.

    Perhaps they'll sell Zen-based Athlons with a single CCX and the L3 cache disabled or Bristol Ridge with the iGPU disabled by then.



    Where the XboneX will still win for a significant margin is memory bandwidth, though. 320GB/s is a good 25% more than RX580's 256GB/s. Take away 20-30GB/s for the CPU cores and the difference is still there.
     
  8. Michellstar

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    RX580 TF figures are boost, not the sustained average.
    We have to shoot higher to get close to scorpio
    Vega 11 where are you...
     
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  9. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    the disadvantage for Scorpio lies in the CPU, you can get a Ryzen 1600 for a very good price and it would be leaps and bounds above Scorpio's CPU.

    Plus I remember a developer of Ark saying that Scorpio is the equivalent to a PC with 16GB of RAM and a GTX 1070. Taking into account that W10 can run with less than 2GB especially with a clean start, and the fact that the 1070 alone has 8GB of RAM, that's close to the entire 9GB for Scorpio. That's from the GPU alone. Even with 8GB of RAM for the OS, you'd actually have 4GB extra compared to Scorpio.

    Bandwidth wise, the 1070 (260GB/s iirc) is actually a bit behind the total of Scorpio's bandwidth. That doesn't tell he whole story, 'cos with a 2% overclock my RX 570's bandwidth is 228,7GB/s and the GTX 1070 is much better per se.

    But I think what helps Scorpio to achieve the 4k dream is its GPU's stats + bandwidth.
     
    #9 Cyan, Jun 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  10. Silent_Buddha

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    While it's affordably priced, it also drives up the price quite significantly when comparing to the OP, which is already going to be significantly higher than the XBO-X.

    Memory pools can't be compared so easily. On the XBO-X, the CPU and GPU have access to the same memory. In game terms this means that potentially at any given time 9 GB (memory dedicated to gaming) can be split in any way between CPU and GPU.

    Data also doesn't need to travel between the CPU and GPU over PCIE. Data also doesn't need to travel between main memory pool to GPU memory pool over PCIE. This means that the XBO-X isn't going to need to duplicate data in both the main memory pool and the graphics memory pool as on PC. This also means that you don't have to cache as much stuff in the GPU memory pool on the XBO-X as on the PC to avoid having to go to main memory as much as possible.

    Memory also isn't being used for an OS designed around the concept of a desktop PC where memory needs to be available at all times for a variety of tasks at a moments notice. IE - the XBO-X can make far more efficient use of memory both for the GPU and for the CPU.

    Basically with 8 GB of main memory (unknown amount used by OS at any given moment) + 8 GB of VRAM (unknown amount used by OS for non-gaming purposes at any given moment) on the surface appears to be more, from a game perspective it's probably less than the 12 GB on XBO-X (3 GB only is ever reserved for non-game uses). 16 GB main + 8 GB VRAM is likely going to be a lot more from a game perspect, but will be a better match as it isn't going to constrain a game like 8 GB + 8 GB will.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  11. Blazkowicz

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    Linux is getting better, doing pretty well if you have a Polaris or GCN 1.2 with very recent open source drivers (as weird as it sounds). But with CPU hungry games, overheads (even a CPU hungry idle browser in the background) the Ryzen 1600 sounds so much better to have indeed.
    X4 860K or X4 845 are rather great for the price yet they feel like overclocked i7 750 or Phenom II, this has been one of the main hurdles to PC gaming imo : CPU can all too easily be a glass ceiling and you end up having to rebuy everything or quit keeping up.

    Of course if you go linux as well, AAA gaming does exist but there isn't very much of it (e.g. Metro Last Light, recent Civilization games are ones that come to mind)
     
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