Frenetic Pony
Veteran
Companies can't tell retailers what price to sell it for, but they can tell them what price they can legally advertise for. That's why you'll get "price available in cart" stuff.
Pricing Discussions around AMD VEGA *over-flow*
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Companies can't tell retailers what price to sell it for, but they can tell them what price they can legally advertise for. That's why you'll get "price available in cart" stuff.
Frenetic Pony
Veteran
Yeah, combined with several interesting VEGA hardware features, like FP16 which is relatively easy to support, their built in residency management, and their deferred pixel shading (only shade pixels once through the pipeline, in hardware!) it seems like a $400 Vega 56 would be the way to go for a mid range card. Not only is it faster than a 1070, but I'd expect it to last doing well on gaming a hell of a lot longer in terms of being game worthy. A nice pickup if you're looking for something long term.
IMO it's a pretty s**ty move by AMD, to get the cards reviewed at one price then sell them at another. I've long supported AMD and want competition but I think that really is poor form. Cards in the UK that are available are over £550 (nearly £600) and make no mention of "Free" Games, just the black card. These are available, and have been since launch when the prices when back up.
I assume if you are a major etailer and buying 1000's of cards you may get invoiced after delivery? Gibbo's post read to me as AMD set the launch price (£450) and those cards were purchased from AMD at a price which made the launch price viable. He went on to state that overclocker's could not afford to sell subsequent stock at launch price as they would not make any money, but would continue to put pressure on AMD to return to the launch price.
I assume if you are a major etailer and buying 1000's of cards you may get invoiced after delivery? Gibbo's post read to me as AMD set the launch price (£450) and those cards were purchased from AMD at a price which made the launch price viable. He went on to state that overclocker's could not afford to sell subsequent stock at launch price as they would not make any money, but would continue to put pressure on AMD to return to the launch price.
It will carry a cost in good will and brand loyalty for sure. It's easy to forget about the long term value of those when there's opportunity for short term profit taking.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
That's the game-only black pack, regardless of what newegg decided to call it.
Since most of the discrete GPU market consists of upgaders, the consequence is bound to be that a certain fraction just doesn't upgrade this cycle, (and may drop off entirely). Or, in AMDs case, go to their competitor.
There is always competition for consumer disposable income. For the PC industry as a whole, gaming products have become the high-margin breathing hole in a shrinking PC market. Which will unavoidably shrink that niche in terms of numbers sooner than total value. Fewer people will be paying more. I don't think it a good direction long term, but long term crystal balls tend to be foggy anyway.
chavvdarrr
Veteran
Are the yields so bad, that AMD is unable to make enough cards?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Yes in the same way yields were so bad for 1070 and 1080 that NV couldn't make enough cards to meet demand.
In other words, there's no way to know whether yields are good or bad. All we know is that supply is lower than demand at certain MSRP points.
Regards,
SB
itsmydamnation
Veteran
The better question is how many 14nm wafer starts do amd get a month. at 480mm your only looking at ~100 dies total a wafer. Then consider vega, polaris 10 , polaris 11, polaris 12 and zepplin
FAB 8 is designed for 60k wafer a month but is shared with multiple processes. Asumming AMD get access to 30-40k wafer starts a month at 14nm:
40K wafers a month ~=
10 million zepplins or
8 million P10 or
17 million P11 or
21 million P12 or
3 million Vega
So What is your mix going to be. Vega is probably also packaging/hbm limited.
FAB 8 is designed for 60k wafer a month but is shared with multiple processes. Asumming AMD get access to 30-40k wafer starts a month at 14nm:
40K wafers a month ~=
10 million zepplins or
8 million P10 or
17 million P11 or
21 million P12 or
3 million Vega
So What is your mix going to be. Vega is probably also packaging/hbm limited.
There wasn't supposed to be such pack though, just the 1 pack which gives you possibility to get discounted ryzen+mobo and discounted samsung freesync monitor while you're at it, but apparently Newegg has gone their own way about it
edit:
scratch that - newegg has several different bundles listed, i suppose they can list one with just the games too if they want to
The version with the games is a bundle. Just like the version with the CPU and monitor.
The games were never presented as an offering, they were presented as a $120 value in the $600 black pack with either the normal or limited editions of the Vega 64.
AMD was very explicit over a month ago that this was the way they were using to try to get some cards in the hands of gamers instead of miners.
They said in interviews that at least during launch non-bundle cards would be sold in limited quantities because those would probably get gobbled up by miners.
Of course, I could post interviews and links of decent techsites explaining this and these slides a thousand times over that right afterwards there would be someone posting a hitpiece like that kitguru one and then the mob would naturally have to follow with the "OMG, AMD is so evil" speech.
Yes, bad naughty AMD for figuring out ways to get cards to people who legitimately want to play games by selling them in bundles with monitors, CPUs and games that miners don't want.
Common, Totten, the slide says "2 FREE GAMES". How can you say the games were never presented as an offering? AMD's message is a disgrace, they are not able to communicate clearly. Plus, you do not have to be a freaking genius to understand that if the card with the games included is 100 more expensive than the one which does not come with any games, the games are not free! Its shady money grabbing and if NVidia was doing the same you would be calling them for it!
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There's actually no "game only pack". Packs are "Aqua", "Black" and "Red" and the only difference is about the card you buy which defines the packs name (LC = Aqua, V64 = Black, V56=Red). The games are included in every pack.
Of course you don't have to believe me, but just look at AMDs official terms and and conditions here:
https://www.amdrewards.com/amdrewards/
where „Click here for RADEON™ RX VEGA CAMPAIGN Terms and Conditions“ lead to this.
https://www.amdrewards.com/amdrewards/files/AMD-Rewards-Radeon-RX-Vega.pdf
And of course partially outside the realm of AMDs influence is the choice of games, where legislation is involved as well as sadly the missing rebate on the FreeSync Display at least here in germany. We only get Prey & SE4 plus the CPU/Mobo-Discount for any Radeon Pack I could find.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
If you purchase a pack you get the games and the option to get discounts. That's the way it should be, but apparently newegg and others decided to fragment the options into different "SKUs". Hence the existence of a games-only pack.
This right here.
MindFactory in Germany has it clearly stated here too:
https://www.mindfactory.de/Highligh.../Badge/163x80_badge_AMD_Radeon_RX_VEGA_Bundle
2 games for those 649€ cards and you get 85€ off "Ryzen 7 actionbundles" if you decide to go for one
DavidGraham
Veteran
AIB Partners to GN: Gibbo Was Right About AMD Price Changing:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3023-aib-partners-to-gn-yes-vega-price-will-change
So, like AMD said, the Bundle („Pack“) is 2 games plus rebate on Mobo/CPU plus - in fortunate countries - a rebate on an LCD.
If you don't buy LCD/CPU/Mobo, obviously you are not eligible for the rebate. There's no special offer or pricing by AMD for a version of card+games. You always pay for the rebate, whether you use it or not.
If you don't buy LCD/CPU/Mobo, obviously you are not eligible for the rebate. There's no special offer or pricing by AMD for a version of card+games. You always pay for the rebate, whether you use it or not.
There is no mention of any discounts or vouchers for Ryzen processors or monitors, which should have been in a black pack.
edit: so apparently Newegg is doing it's own thing
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
Did you look here.
Rootax
Veteran
BTW, the "We're doing this because miners" is BS from AMD and they know it. The perf/power draw is bad, nobody want that for efficient mining. They're doing it because they have hard time making money with a "low" 499 price. It's a card which cost a lot to make, and is all in all is a let down. They're screwed right now.
