Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[N2O]

Other people thought it was a good candidate
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1693635&postcount=18323

I'm guessing the ESRAM is probably more flexible (but slower) than Xenos' EDRAM, it can be written to by both the CPU & GPU so can be used for more than just framebuffer operations.

ESRAM faster than EDRAM

 

[AlNom]

68GB/s at 60fps is ~1.13 GB per frame, so perhaps Andy H's source is just rounding down to 1GB/frame

Well, if you want to take liberties, there are a small number of configs.

DDR3-1600 @320-bit (5x64 chan) or DDR3-1333 @384-bit (6x64 chan) is ~64GB/s

DDR-1866@256-bit (4x64 chan) is ~59.6GB/s

etc

----

ultimately, 128-bit would require much higher speeds than is spec'd for DDR3.

 

[liquidboy]

Just a quick comment on the rumoured 3 custom blocks on Durango ... If these are true and as intriguing/different as Bikilian and others make out.

You would patent there design to death. No stone unturned, every i dotted, t crossed. Leave no room for invalidation. Also you would expect many patents to cover various uses of these components..

Just suggesting that anything novel in the next xbox would now already be patented and public ...

 

[(((interference)))]

Well, if you want to take liberties, there are a small number of configs.

DDR3-1600 @320-bit (5x64 chan) or DDR3-1333 @384-bit (6x64 chan) is ~64GB/s

DDR-1866@256-bit (4x64 chan) is ~59.6GB/s

etc

----

ultimately, 128-bit would require much higher speeds than is spec'd for DDR3.

Sorry, I don't follow:

DDR3 2133 @ 256 bit bus, doesn't that get you to 68 GB/s
Since 1866@256 bit gets you 60GB/s and 2133 mhz is ~14% faster than 1866 mhz, therefore 68 GB/s is 14% faster than 1866/64.

Yes? No?

 

[(((interference)))]

Just a quick comment on the rumoured 3 custom blocks on Durango ... If these are true and as intriguing/different as Bikilian and others make out.

You would patent there design to death. No stone unturned, every i dotted, t crossed. Leave no room for invalidation. Also you would expect many patents to cover various uses of these components..

Just suggesting that anything novel in the next xbox would now already be patented and public ...

The whole custom block thing has been overblown IMO, it's probably just an audio DSP, a Kinect skeletal solver and some other stuff (blitter, raytracer whatever).

I doubt it's some magic bullet that they have to have patented.

 

[liquidboy]

Also .. if the Durango has a radical new SoC design, you would expect that all these figures people are throwing out there to mean nothing at all. No one knows what the hell to expect from a new design, so trying to refer to benchmarks is fruitless!

 

[AlNom]

Sorry, I don't follow:

DDR3 2133 @ 256 bit bus, doesn't that get you to 68 GB/s
Since 1866@256 bit gets you 60GB/s and 2133 mhz is ~14% faster than 1866 mhz, therefore 68 GB/s is 14% faster than 1866/64.

Yes? No?

Right, but I mean if you want to take "60GB/s" as a target, then there are a few configs that can get there. Nothing is really confirmed, so I'm just suggesting alternate configs.

Personally, I'd think they'd go with the smallest I/O width to aid in future die reductions, but who knows..

 

[Proelite]

8GB of 2133 MHZ DDR3 is fairly expensive right? Any idea how much wattage does it draw?

 

[(((interference)))]

Also .. if the Durango has a radical new SoC design, you would expect that all these figures people are throwing out there to mean nothing at all. No one knows what the hell to expect from a new design, so trying to refer to benchmarks is fruitless!

If Mr Fox is right?
Then perhaps it isn't a SoC after all.

Where did you get the 102GB/s for eSRAM?
If it's directly on the die, I would think it can be much much faster than this.

 

[AlNom]

8GB of 2133 MHZ DDR3 is fairly expensive right? Any idea how much wattage does it draw?

DDR3 power consumption is the least thing I'd worry about tbh.

 

[bitsandbytes]

DDR3 power consumption is the least thing I'd worry about tbh.

Sorry to jump in here. What would you worry about?

 

[AlNom]

Sorry to jump in here. What would you worry about?

The CPU/GPU. DDR3 power consumption is very minimal.

8GB of 2133 MHZ DDR3 is fairly expensive right? Any idea how much wattage does it draw?

I would be surprised if it's more than a few watts... insiginificant next to the power of the farce.

 

[anexanhume]

So, making some assumptions on numbers, can someone explain how a 1.2TF GPU with 60GB/S performs the same as a 1.8TF GPU with 192GB/S without extra dedicated compute hardware?

 

[bitsandbytes]

The CPU/GPU. DDR3 power consumption is very minimal.

Thanks.

 

[ERP]

Where is this 12 ROPS coming from?

I pulled it out of thin air.
I took 100GB/s that was being circulated and looked to see what sort of GPU that would support If it was configured like 360. Partly to see how likely the rumor was.

I certainly wouldn't take it as a certainty.
You could do the same calculation, assume 8 bit color components and it's easily enough to support 16 ROPs.

 

[3dcgi]

Why did they not start 360 with a "monolithic APU" then? Cause it's harder to fab.

It was impossible to fab the 360 edram at TSMC which is where the larger die was fabbed.

Just a quick comment on the rumoured 3 custom blocks on Durango ... If these are true and as intriguing/different as Bikilian and others make out.

You would patent there design to death. No stone unturned, every i dotted, t crossed. Leave no room for invalidation. Also you would expect many patents to cover various uses of these components..

Just suggesting that anything novel in the next xbox would now already be patented and public ...

If the company wants to keep something a secret they'd hold off on filing a patent until closer to launch. Plus, patents don't immediately get posted online. It takes some time for that.

 

[Carl B]

Personally, I'd think they'd go with the smallest I/O width to aid in future die reductions, but who knows..

Absolutely - not to mention the added expense of said analog circuitry to begin with. It is what it is, and if MS felt comfortable going with the fatter bus, more power to them. Still, I would also believe dev kit considerations replicating an environment where it will be a narrower bus with faster more modern RAM.

 

[Carl B]

You would patent there design to death. No stone unturned, every i dotted, t crossed. Leave no room for invalidation. Also you would expect many patents to cover various uses of these components..

Just suggesting that anything novel in the next xbox would now already be patented and public ...

Most definitely given the breadth and depth of modern patent portfolios across the big corporations, and the cross-licensing that the mobile industry especially has generated, there could be anything from anywhere repurposed to specific effect on custom silicon without the need for huge "flag" patents to cross our screens.

 

[Carl B]

Then perhaps it isn't a SoC after all.

If not an SoC at the outset, I would still imagine some plan and accommodation for a migration to such in the future, if only for cost control reasons.

 

[Solarus]

So the "secret sauce" of 720 is VTE? Real time ray tracing for lighting? Sound cool! I searched VTE but I can't find much talk on it. Is this something MS is cooking up that's like brand new? I don't see how these VTEs just lept frogged GPUs and can do what GPUs still can't do.

But it's cool regardless, when will we see VTEs on desktop GPUs? I'm sure there's a sizeable market for being able to do raytracing in real time for lighting no?