It's not as bad now with DX11 as it was with the previous versions and I think the tessellation units in DX11 cards get way passed the previous geometric limits.
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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It's not as bad now with DX11 as it was with the previous versions and I think the tessellation units in DX11 cards get way passed the previous geometric limits.
Inuhanyou
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I see...so it really is a big asset that the consoles use a really low level API if at all, and fixed architecture doesn't hurt at all either.
We know that Microsoft uses some form of DX although probably not close to how it is in PC's, more like a general feature set that is supported by the GPU with the similarity to the feature set that DX allows for PC, would that be a fair conclusion to make?
DirectX on Xbox/360 is just a similar looking API, using similar concepts to the PC version.
The issue on PC is the driver model which is why DX11 doesn't have as much of an issue.
Consoles traditionally haven't really had "GPU Drivers" in the traditional sense, though I guess that could change going forwards as they become more multifunction boxes.
FWIW the draw call overhead is how a PC with a much faster processor can end up CPU bound in a game where a console would be GPU bound, despite it's crappy CPU. It's also why it's actually hard to do a PC port of a console game, if the original developer didn't worry about the PC port ahead of time.
Depends what you mean by optimization.
On a PC you do everything you can to reduce draw calls, including copying buffers and coalescing things on the CPU, because the cost of that copying/coalescing is less than the cost of the draw call overhead.
On a console in general you try to minimize the copying involved because the bulk of the overhead in a draw call is the copy.
On a console you might want to submit world models broken into smaller pieces because the GPU has to do less work on offscreen or hidden polygons, on a PC you'd want larger pieces to reduce draw call overhead.
This is what people don't seem to understand about optimizations on a console, ignoring algorithmic improvements, rarely do you discover new tricks that allow things to run faster later in a console life, what you understand is how data flows through the system, and where time is spent, that let's you be smarter about how you organize the data. You simply can't do optimizations like this on a PC, because different hardware behaves differently, so you "optimize" for the worst cases across the hardware.
Lucid_Dreamer
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Isn't the last graph, in the last link I provided, comparing DX11 to OpenGL?
Edit: The following one.
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Inuhanyou
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Is this the issue Crytek was speaking about when they were saying that the trouble with PC development is having to account for every player's PC configuration?
Its quite simple to say that consoles are all the same hardware wise so you can code for every piece of hardware and get the same result.
I'm assuming that this same logic applies to multiplatform games and how they function on every platform.
Wow this AndyH guy on gaf has been spot on with his posts through the past year.
3/8/2012:
His posts on the Wii-U received a LOT of flak.
3/9/2012:
3/10/2012
3/24/2012
3/26/2012
12/2/2012
1/6/2013
I think I am adding him to the list of people who I trust, which so far only has sweetvar26 and bkilian.
3/8/2012:
His posts on the Wii-U received a LOT of flak.
3/9/2012:
3/10/2012
3/24/2012
3/26/2012
Those specifications were correct as of a few months ago. It's nice to see the 2GB max crowd finally change their ways and see the light of the impossible 8GB. What I haven't seen posted yet is that 2 cores and 3GB of RAM will be dedicated to the OS. This information is second hand and months old now though. If true I can see MS using Windows8 or some variant of it as the Durango's OS and making huge advances over the current gen OS. They really want to take over the living room.
12/2/2012
1/6/2013
I think I am adding him to the list of people who I trust, which so far only has sweetvar26 and bkilian.
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And he still managed to massively overestimate it. 4770? Not by a long shot. Fair jump over the PS360? Nope. Up-resed PS360 games? Nopedy Nope.
Is it too late to request 2GB of GDDR5?
He was one of the first to say that the Wii U CPU is weaker than the 360 cpu, and the preceded even Sweetvar26 when it comes to the 8 core CPU in Durango.
And he still managed to massively overestimate it. 4770? Not by a long shot. Fair jump over the PS360? Nope. Up-resed PS360 games? Nopedy Nope.
Is it too late to request 2GB of GDDR5?
It could be a dev kit limitation only.
Bagel seed
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8 core cpu 8 gig is all but confirmed now. 3 gb for OS but that's probably just reserved for the start and shrunken down over time if they find out they don't need that much later.
Not really buying the 1.5 or lower TF gpu scares yet but with these supposed customizations maybe it performs as well as a 2.5TF one in real world situations.
Not really buying the 1.5 or lower TF gpu scares yet but with these supposed customizations maybe it performs as well as a 2.5TF one in real world situations.
3GB? Lol.
Interesting. Two pieces of information I had not seen anywhere else. I'd say his source is legit. (And it's not me
)Bagel seed
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Sure, why not?
At launch most games will be cross gen ports from third parties and not likely to use up all the ram anyways. Why not be safe and reserve a bit more in case they want to implement some crazy OS features.
Load up 2 games at the same time
Inuhanyou
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It makes sense. I've heard(although someone more knowledgeable than myself will probably correct me) that not many PC games even uses more than 2 GB right now for anything significant, although that has more to do with the console nature of the PC ports than anything else.
In a console 5 GB is probably overkill, but that's apart of future proofing.
Considering that Agni only needs 1.8gigs of vram to render its visuals, that's saying a lot.
Sure, why not?
At launch most games will be cross gen ports from third parties and not likely to use up all the ram anyways. Why not be safe and reserve a bit more in case they want to implement some crazy OS features.Load up 2 games at the same time
Windows 8 (my PC) is using <1GB (mostly cached). And who will play with 2 games at the same time? xD
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