Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[TheWretched]

At that time, such a PC would've cost you upwards of 1000USD to buy, if not more. I got a Pentium 60 in 1994 with 8MB RAM (no CDROM, no Soundcard, but an HDD) for 3000DM (which at the time was about 1500USD). And that system was NO match against PSX or Saturn.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Would have it been too expensive (with some L2 on the mainboard), maybe.

Absolutely! You're describing a high-end PC at £1000+ or whatever it would have been. There's a reason the consoles needed simpler hardware or dedicated hardware to achieve what they did in an affordable package.

 

[arijoytunir]

posted on semiaccurate forums . is this a valid pic ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Looks like one already debunked on this forum on year or three ago, where the slide is a fabrication proven by someone finding the original shot.

Ah yes, Google uncovered this in the first link.
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469618

http://blogs.gartner.com/andrew_white/files/2010/10/IBM-IOD-Information-Supply-Chain.JPG - 2010 original

 

[pjbliverpool]

I'm not backing any rumors, but xenos is theoretically ~250GF while an x800 of the time was less than 200GF
ok, completely different architectures, but maybe some rumor is right and in the TF numbers adds a new architecture due on pc after 2014

When Xenos launched in the 360 the strongest PC GPU you could buy (at least measured in GFLOP terms) in the day was the 7800GTX 512 sporting 255.2 GFLOPs compared to 240 in Xenos. A couple of months later the X1900XTX was launched sporting 426.4 GFLOPS.

However those were the days when PC's used GPU's with TDP's in the region of ~100w and so it was far easier for consoles to match that performance because they could afford the same TDP. For comparison the GTX512 would have had a TDP of around 90 - 100w on a 110nm process while Xenos would likely have been around 70-80w on a 90nm process (I can't find exact figures for either but that's based on known TDP's for other comparable GPU's of the time). The 1900XTX had a TDP of 135w on 90nm however it was much more powerful than Xenos in most respects.

The power allowance for a new generation of consoles hasn't really gone up as far as we can tell but PC TDP's have risen dramatically so it's simply much more difficult for console GPU's to be in the same performance region these days.

The TDP of the 7970 for example (an AMD architecture so the most accurate comparison point for the upcoming consoles) is 250w at 28nm. How can consoles compete with that using the same process when they probably only have 100w to spend on the GPU (maybe 150 if you account for the efficiency's gained from using an APU)?

 

[arijoytunir]

Hd 7970 can be used only to play games in the console whereas the low powered APU will be used to do the other stuffs by the help of gpu context switching . This way the average power consumption will be decent .

 

[anexanhume]

Hd 7970 can be used only to play games in the console whereas the low powered APU will be used to do the other stuffs by the help of gpu context switching . This way the average power consumption will be decent .

You still have to build for peak consumption, and it gets harder and harder to cool a GPU as you get above 100W and you have space, noise and cost requirements. I wouldn't expect much more than 100W. Certainly not more than 130W.

 

[arijoytunir]

So in that 100-130 watt envelope how much performance can be expected ?

 

[Nesh]

You still have to build for peak consumption, and it gets harder and harder to cool a GPU as you get above 100W and you have space, noise and cost requirements. I wouldn't expect much more than 100W. Certainly not more than 130W.

What if the cases become much bigger with an external power supply?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What if the cases become much bigger with an external power supply?

You can go bigger and/or more expensive. More heat can be tackled. It's a matter of where and why the line is drawn.

 

[arijoytunir]

will hd 7970 clocked at 500mhz produce more heat than hd 7870 clocked at 800-1000mhz ?

 

[DieH@rd]

So in that 100-130 watt envelope how much performance can be expected ?

Supposedly 8850 with 1GB of fast GDDR5 spends ~130W and has performance of ~3TF. But that is not confirmed.

 

[arijoytunir]

Supposedly 8850 with 1GB of fast GDDR5 spends ~130W and has performance of ~3TF. But that is not confirmed.

how much does the gddr5 consumes?

 

[XpiderMX]

When Xenos launched in the 360 the strongest PC GPU you could buy (at least measured in GFLOP terms) in the day was the 7800GTX 512 sporting 255.2 GFLOPs compared to 240 in Xenos. A couple of months later the X1900XTX was launched sporting 426.4 GFLOPS.

However those were the days when PC's used GPU's with TDP's in the region of ~100w and so it was far easier for consoles to match that performance because they could afford the same TDP. For comparison the GTX512 would have had a TDP of around 90 - 100w on a 110nm process while Xenos would likely have been around 70-80w on a 90nm process (I can't find exact figures for either but that's based on known TDP's for other comparable GPU's of the time). The 1900XTX had a TDP of 135w on 90nm however it was much more powerful than Xenos in most respects.

The power allowance for a new generation of consoles hasn't really gone up as far as we can tell but PC TDP's have risen dramatically so it's simply much more difficult for console GPU's to be in the same performance region these days.

The TDP of the 7970 for example (an AMD architecture so the most accurate comparison point for the upcoming consoles) is 250w at 28nm. How can consoles compete with that using the same process when they probably only have 100w to spend on the GPU (maybe 150 if you account for the efficiency's gained from using an APU)?

PC graphics cards have the same tdp than console gpu?

 

[DoctorFouad]

will hd 7970 clocked at 500mhz produce more heat than hd 7870 clocked at 800-1000mhz ?

I dont know but I guess the answer is yes more heat indeed.
But I do believe that it is not worth it even if it produces less heat, it is simply a waste of transistors resources (silicon budget) to use a more advanced GPU but just underclock it, it is less expensive to manufacture a less advanced GPU (or any CPU for that matter) and increase its frequency for free, until of course you hit the heat wall threshold.

 

[Rangers]

Damn I wish some new juicy specs would hit...nothing from the beta Durango kits yet I guess. Uggh, lack of hardware info for the upcoming gen has been terrible, starting with Wii U (which we STILL dont know the GPU of)

I dont know but I guess the answer is yes more heat indeed.

My wild guess would be the 500mhz 7970 produces less heat. Someone here said lowering clock speed decreases power consumption exponentially rather than linearly.

Might be an interesting fight regarding power consumption/performance between 500mhz 7970 and 800 mhz (rather than 1000 mhz) 7870 tho, and so on.

 

[anexanhume]

Damn I wish some new juicy specs would hit...nothing from the beta Durango kits yet I guess. Uggh, lack of hardware info for the upcoming gen has been terrible, starting with Wii U (which we STILL dont know the GPU of)



My wild guess would be the 500mhz 7970 produces less heat. Someone here said lowering clock speed decreases power consumption exponentially rather than linearly.

Might be an interesting fight regarding power consumption/performance between 500mhz 7970 and 800 mhz (rather than 1000 mhz) 7870 tho, and so on.

It decreases exponentially if you're able to lower the voltage too. Roughly P = fCV^2.

 

[arijoytunir]

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/02/xbox-next720-silicon-production-day-arrives/#.UORDsOT0Clc

xbox 720 will come this year

 

[bbot]

Edit

 

[DieH@rd]

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/02/xbox-next720-silicon-production-day-arrives/#.UORDsOT0Clc

xbox 720 will come this year

I wonder when will we hear about that infamous APU ahitecture... How big it is and what's inside of it.