Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Acert93, Jun 12, 2006.

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  1. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    The PS3's OS was taking a huge chunk of the available memory so developers were really struggling with the hardware back then. Lots of that memory became available to devs later on
     
  2. french toast

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    Ha ha :) I have yet to play on one, when I first heard the rumored specs I thought it was a load of bull...bit it come true!..unfortunately for ninty fans rumours of a tegra chip in the 3ds didn't... :/
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    One of our proper resident chip tech experts will set the record straight, I'm sure, but something is extremely wrong with ATi and nVidia (or extremely right with IMG) if a 2W Rogue can outperform a 50W chip. Scaling that, 10 Rogues would be next-gen in 20 watts. The only way IMG could get that sort of relative performance advantage is if ATi/AMD and nVidia have been grossly inefficient all these years, including their existing designs, and that means ImageTec can release a desktop part with better performance at lower power than all of them and take over the entire graphics world.

    (Cue Lazy8 with talk of PowerVR's superior architecture ;))
     
  4. french toast

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    Yes true, but 8 years or so is a lifetime in technology world, if you remade a car from the 1960s and upgraded it with the latest suspension, brakes, tires, fuel, air filter, and spark plugs...would it be as fast, reliable and efficient as a brand new car today? Doubtfull.

    Sketchy analogy lol but I think you understand my point. :)
     
  5. Shifty Geezer

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    Except AMD and nVidia have been progressing in this world too, and they haven't anything like a Xenos or RSX in 2W, nor anything like 10x Xenos/RSX (2.5TFlops) in a 20W package.
     
  6. Proelite

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    According to one of his insiders, Watch Dogs demo was running on the Wii-U and should look better on the 720. :lol:
     
  7. fehu

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    a generic car or a cool one?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. french toast

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    That's because they don't primarily design smartphone gpus (in amd case) and nvidia has its next gen Wayne hardware coming soon...so even they might be heading in that direction.
    Ha now that's one car that would stand the test of time :)
     
  9. bgassassin

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    That's a fairly accurate assessment for me. Though some haven't been directly involved with the hardware, but have said things consistent with other things I would hear mentioned.

    My disagreement with him was based on assuming (emphasis on assuming) what he might be making his claim based on (the large amount of memory). As it stands I don't know enough about Xbox 3's GPU to "crown it" yet. It's just that when I got the first vague FLOP mention for that GPU, it wasn't as impressive as the first vague FLOP mention I got with PS4.

    I don't recall it being mentioned that PS4 has moved to 4GB of GDDR5. Only that they are targeting it if the memory densities increase. And with the Jaguar cores, we're probably looking at Xbox 3 having more of them than PS4 if that does happen.

    With the latter part, lherre never said it. That was me. But I guess since lherre didn't refute it (actually I don't even remember him responding to it), people may have felt it was a legitimate analogy. But our agreement and that PC analogy was before I started seeing it for myself.
     
  10. itsmydamnation

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    These jaguar cores better be better then crack otherwise we are looking at extremely unbalanced systems . Bobcat socs only have 80 vliw5 shaders for a reason
     
  11. bgassassin

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    Well it would just be the CPU cores and not the actual APU. To me it sounds like Sony will be relying more on the GPGPU abilities of their GPU. And Sony's CTO talked about DSPs as well. PS4 and Wii U initially sound very similar in design with Wii U obviously being the weaker of the two. Xbox 3 seems to have more emphasis on the CPU for computing along with the extra memory, and saying this from a non-developer's viewpoint, is why based on IGN's survey that devs are having an easier time with Xbox 3 as they aren't having to convert as much of the tasks to the GPU as they would with the other two consoles. Hypothetically speaking of course.
     
  12. RedVi

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    So Sony have effectively reversed the PS3 situation leaving the slightly better GPU to pick up the slightly worse CPU's slack...

    I agree with Jaguar cores sounding underpowered. In a traditional PC setup it would be a massive CPU bottleneck; but of course consoles aren't PC's.
     
  13. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    The Xbox 360 launch unit barely topped 170W at load and current models are about 90W at load.

    Likewise I think the 2W claims besting a console are also an exaggeration. We cannot know until these mythical SoC's are released and get real, non-PR-hype benchmarks but to be blunt is unlikely a mobile GPU sub-system in 2012 is going to best Xenos in performance while drawing only 2W, let alone an entire mobile (display, radio, CPU, CPU, memory, etc). I cannot prove this wrong, you cannot prove it right, but what can be proven is nothing like this currently exists and the previous claim about console power load is grossly inflated which makes me think the mobile claims are inflated in the other direction.

    But we know the mobile industry WANTS people to believe this.
     
  14. itsmydamnation

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    no thats my point, bobcat is a pretty well balanced SOC. its CPU limited in games just as much as its GPU limited. you just cant say sony will fall back on GPGPU because GPGPU has real trade offs against CPU based FP ( latency being a massive one). history is a good guide. the biggest change we have seen in recent history was core to core2.

    unless Jaguar is a complete new design ( not based off bobcat) then your are pretty much looking at the biggest archetexutal change we have seen in x86 if you want to have a hope in hell of supporting a 1.1TF let alone a 1.8TF GPU.

    on the other hand the one thing about bobcat is its INT performance per clock is actually pretty good, in some instances better then STARS. So if they have solid INT performance increase from bobcat to Jaguar and AMD HSA for consoles is far more intergrated and way better then i think most cluely people are expecting ( im not a cluely person :lol:) then maybe it might work. I doupt it.

    if its AMD im willing to bet its steamroller. what happened to all the SMT rumors? your more likely to see SMT on steamroller then you would jaguar.
     
  15. bgassassin

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    Haha. Well for me I'm only semi-caught up on current tech so I can't say completely why there would be pros or cons to certain decisions right now.

    The original target specs had it planned for four Steamroller cores. However there was a rumor that came out a few months ago that they changed from Steamroller cores to Jaguar cores. I haven't seen much info on Jaguar, which I'm assuming it's because of how far away it is from their release. And Kabini (Jaguar-based APU) is supposed to have HSA. And while APU is what has been used when talking about it, Sony's CTO said it would be an SoC.
     
  16. (((interference)))

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    Thanks for clarifying that

    If iherre, being an engineer, knows what he's talking about then he has quite consistently said Durango will be the most powerful. So not too different from your PC analogy:

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38274551&postcount=7296
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38274838&postcount=7318

    translated from this quote:http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1649097&postcount=12175

    Now, it may be that with more recent Orbis devkits the gap between the two has narrowed and they're about equal (with the 720's extra RAM and CPU cores being offset by a weaker GPU), but I don't see a dramatic change like the PS4 being significantly more powerful (in real terms)- do you?


    Do you know how close to final the GPUs in the current devkits for each system are believed to be? ie. is PS4 closer to final or Durango?
     
  17. bgassassin

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    Ok so he did respond to that part. I couldn't remember. And I still think he's basing that on the CPU and memory at least for now. Tying that in with the last question when I was first told about PS4's GPU it was said to be "~2 TFLOPs", which I eventually learned it was ~1.8 TFLOPs. When I first heard about Xbox 3's I was told "1+ TFLOPs". So like I told the person, that doesn't sound very impressive compared to when I first heard about PS4's GPU (different people by the way). And he said they were still working on the GPU for Xbox 3. So that was about a month ago. I don't have an update on PS4's progress right now.

    And yeah I think PS4 is pretty much set at whatever they plan it to be other than determining the memory amount. I see Sony keeping tighter control over costs.
     
    #12817 bgassassin, Jun 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2012
  18. Xenus

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    Lherre also seems to hint that the Xbox720 is further along in the development though. So the PS4 isn't as nailed down yet and still has more in a state of flux. Either that or his info on it just isn't as concrete.
     
  19. (((interference)))

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    Thanks for that, well, that also matches the rumours that AMD recently finished working on the PS4 and are concentrating on Durango now.

    Ok, so the PS4 seems closer to being final specs (other than RAM). This is also in keeping with rumours that they want to launch first.

    And the tighter cost control makes complete sense if you look at their commercial situation .

    This is also why I don't see MS ceding the core audience by having a weaker machine.
    Unlike Sony, they can afford to (at least) match Orbis' relatively conservative specs (it's no PS2/3) so why wouldn't they?
     
  20. (((interference)))

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    It could be further along in developlement in the way that they've been working to similar specs (in terms of cores, RAM etc) outlined in that leak (which dates back to 2010) wheras the PS4 is a more recent design (perhaps Sony were previously considering Cell or something) and they're still tossing up between Jaguar or steamroller cores and 2GB or 4GB of RAM.

    Either way, it can be true that most of the 720 is quite final and also that the GPU is still not finalised and AMD is working on a more customised part for the shipping product.
     
    #12820 (((interference))), Jun 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2012
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