Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Acert93]

Alstrong: was the daughter die edram not of a usable size to cope with the textures? Or was it that xenos did not have full access?

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/

All your answers are right there.

 

[N2O]

the problem is that directx12 wont probably be out for a long time (2014 ?) + I doubt it would be as a generational leap compared to its predecessor as directx11 was to directx10, or directx9 was to directx8.

someone in this forum talked about ps3-xbox360 being unfortunately at the wrong timeline technology wise (a period of major technology shift) resulting on both consoles being hugely underpowered. I dont agree with this statement for xbox360, it was a perfect timeline for that cnsole at that period (fall 2005) : directx9 feature set, unified shaders, multi core-multi threaded CPU, GDDR....etc

But I do agree for ps3 which was released in the US in fall 2006, but was available in europe only in march 2007. the ps3 even missed the unified shaders revolution, and ended up with an outdated GPU the day of its release with the arrival of the revolutionary Geforce8. And if xbox360's 512 Mb of RAM + 10 Mb of edram can still be positively compared to PCs of 2005. the 512 Mb of ps3 in 2006-2007 were simply outdated ridicoulously low specifications compared to PCs of that time.

all of this showed clearly in software : the first multiplatform ps3 games were horrible compared to their xbox360 counterparts (If I remember correctly fifa or madden was running at 30 fps on ps3 without anti aliasing, and at 60 fps with 4x MSAA on xbox 360 ! it was shocking at that time ! ). But more importanlty xbox360 enjoyed the most technically advanced and graphically stunning (the first proper next gen title on the market) : gears of war. More advanced than anything PC could offer in 2006. That wasent the case of ps3 : not only geforce 8 came but also Crysis happened, making the ps3 technically obsolete almost the day of its release in europe, not even enjoying 1 year of superiority VS PC a la xbox360 (in terms of software)....

so xbox360 was technically released in a perfect timeline and technological transition, nothing was missing (except maybe Blu Ray, and more or less a standard HDD). This wasent the case for ps3. what aout ps4-nextxbox ? I believe at least one of the two manufacturers can repeat the microsoft feat realized with the xbox360. I bet on sony this time despite the fact of their financial difficulties, with kinect apparently microsoft is going more or less the mainstream casual risky route. Add to this the taent of sony developers : just imagine what could naughty dog realize in 2013 for uncharted 4 with 4 GB of GDDR5 and a state of the art ATI 2 Tflops modern GPU (jaws dropping), or just imagine what kazunori yamauchi can do wen running its GT5 properly with all the high rez models and at 1080p with 4X MSAA with stable 60 fps

Microsoft want everything,not just casual,they won't let Sony's next console obviously more powerful than nextbox(also for Sony actually,even they don't have much money now)

so i bet nextbox and PS4 will still very close,unless...one for them have a year head start

 

[anexanhume]

Actually the PS Vita is somewhat conservative (for a Sony console), it relies mostly on off the shelf parts and the iPad 3 is basically as powerful.

And it pains me. If they had held out for Rogue they would be exceeding the PS3 in theoretical GPU throughput.

 

[archangelmorph]

And it pains me. If they had held out for Rogue they would be exceeding the PS3 in theoretical GPU throughput.

Except without the GDDR bandwidth to RAM it wouldn't in reality be anywhere near RSX in terms of theoretical throughput.

 

[anexanhume]

Except without the GDDR bandwidth to RAM it wouldn't in reality be anywhere near RSX in terms of theoretical throughput.

Why I said theoretical

Vita is only driving 960x544 vs. 1280x720 for the PS3. About 75% less pixels. I bet they could get close to some first gen PS3 titles with the right Rogue chip and some LPDDR3.

Serious question; is PS Vita VRAM type known? I just assumed it was a separate LPDDR2 pool.

Yeah.

Some many odd things. Next Xbox rumored to be called Durango and nVidia having Project Denver. Why the Colorado references?

Location based codenames are pervasive. Microsoft OS's are codenamed after cities. AMD GPUs are codenamed after islands (currently). Intel CPU codenames are locations.

now another tech sheet surfaced
http://currenteditorials.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/xbox-surface-specs2.jpg
still 12 core
look at GPU detailed spec
384 bit, 1100 SP, Core 1.15, Mem 1.5 Ghz
Occlusion Driven DX 11

384 bit memory interface in a console? No way.

 

[archangelmorph]

Why I said theoretical

Vita is only driving 960x544 vs. 1280x720 for the PS3. About 75% less pixels. I bet they could get close to some first gen PS3 titles with the right Rogue chip and some LPDDR3.

I doubt it...

Some of the biggest issues we had with the Vita's performance when we worked on the platform were (aside from a lack of raw shading power) relatively poorer texture sampling bandwidth & hi cost of using render targets or MRTs due to the nature of the SGX architecture when compared with PS360 or your typical desktop GPU part.

Don't think I can really say much more than that..

Serious question; is PS Vita VRAM type known? I just assumed it was a separate LPDDR2 pool.

I know it...

 

[anexanhume]

I doubt it...

Some of the biggest issues we had with the Vita's performance when we worked on the platform were (aside from a lack of raw shading power) relatively poorer texture sampling bandwidth & hi cost of using render targets or MRTs due to the nature of the SGX architecture when compared with PS360 or your typical desktop GPU part.

Don't think I can really say much more than that..

Can you say the same with confidence about Rogue though? It is quite an architecture jump for them, although I know the trappings of a mobile processor will still be there.

I know it...

And? I assume it's not LPDDR2 otherwise you wouldn't address it.

 

[bkilian]

Location based codenames are pervasive. Microsoft OS's are codenamed after cities. AMD GPUs are codenamed after islands (currently). Intel CPU codenames are locations.

Place names can't be trademarked. Most Microsoft codenames tend to be cities, areas, rivers, colours, etc. The same is true for a lot of other companies. We switched to it after XBox (which was the codename and became the trade name, and we had to pay some dude a ton of money to get the trademark from him)

It has it's fun moments. I was on Project Pink, and all our documents used "pink.com" as a placeholder for the associated website. Unfortunately it's already a website, and not one you really want to visit at work.

 

[steviep]

Can you say the same with confidence about Rogue though? It is quite an architecture jump for them, although I know the trappings of a mobile processor will still be there.

The very hyperbolic nature of the industry's "xxx will be surpassed by ipad" is always wrong because of the bolded. Physics will always win out. Rogue may be a wonderful piece of tech, but it's still constrained by the laws of nature.

 

[anexanhume]

The very hyperbolic nature of the industry's "xxx will be surpassed by ipad" is always wrong because of the bolded. Physics will always win out. Rogue may be a wonderful piece of tech, but it's still constrained by the laws of nature.

True, but software methods improve along with hardware. The 360 isn't rendering millions of sprites, after all.

 

[french toast]

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/

All your answers are right there.

Cheers

 

[aaronspink]

Location based codenames are pervasive. Microsoft OS's are codenamed after cities. AMD GPUs are codenamed after islands (currently). Intel CPU codenames are locations.

It is primarily a legal issue. ie, you cannot copyright the names of cities/states/countries/rivers/etc and as such using the names cannot be grounds for a lawsuit. At least in theory...

 

[babybumb]

The very hyperbolic nature of the industry's "xxx will be surpassed by ipad" is always wrong because of the bolded. Physics will always win out. Rogue may be a wonderful piece of tech, but it's still constrained by the laws of nature.

Mobile gfx parts advancing to perceived level of seven year old consoles is hardly physics bending.

 

[steviep]

Mobile gfx parts advancing to perceived level of seven year old consoles is hardly physics bending.

Rogue isn't even a match for the 360 GPU.

 

[french toast]

Mobile gfx parts advancing to perceived level of seven year old consoles is hardly physics bending.

Considering consoles spur out around 200-250w at load and mobiles around 2w...I happen to think it is very amazing.

 

[pjbliverpool]

-16 core- 64 total thread for xbox 720
-Watch Dog actually running on 720, (look at smartglass idea)
-BF3 xbxo 720 version is better than PC Ultra etc
-GPU for 720 are targetting 8970 (this is why ms going back to drawing board)
at first ms targetting 6-8x (IGN rumor)
-then MS targetting 12x at minimal, 8970 performace

That rumors a load of rubbish and there's no wonder its been ignored. Watch dogs running on x720? Not impossible except the developers specifically said it was running on pc, not an unnanounced platform. 12x x360 performance equal 8970? Lol not even close. Try more like 30x.

 

[babybumb]

Rogue isn't even a match for the 360 GPU.

It exceeds Xenos with DX11 level HW.. Crytek says it will be very close. DF expecting even better.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/355195/features/crytek-the-future-of-consoles-is-free-to-play/

I believe firmly that the next-generation of tablets are going to be close to current-generation consoles. So if the next-generation consoles don't ship very soon, the tablets are just going to run over them. That's very clear.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-new-ipad-evolution-of-ios

An A15/Rogue combo is a seriously big deal. We've seen hints and demos of AAA content running on mobile platforms before - Lost Planet 2 running on Tegra 3 for example - but certainly in terms of GPU horsepower, Rogue should be able to match and exceed performance from the Xenos graphics core found in the Xbox 360 - indeed, the new IMG chip should also feature additional DirectX 11 graphics features and sources tell us that it blitzes performance of the SGX543 hardware in the current iPad 3 and PlayStation Vita. In theory, next-gen iOS devices - including the much-rumoured Apple TV for the living room - could potentially become a target for AAA cross-platform game development.

 

[steviep]

It exceeds Xenos with DX11 level HW.. Crytek says it will be very close. DF expecting even better.

Credit where it's due - it's an impressive 2w chip. But it's still a 2w chip.
So, no - you're still constrained by the laws of physics.

 

[french toast]

Credit where it's due - it's an impressive 2w chip. But it's still a 2w chip.
So, no - you're still constrained by the laws of physics.

It's technology that matters, not frequency and watts, I have no idea if rogue will out do xenos...but hypethetically .. in flops terms it will pan it, in api software terms it will pan it (dx 11.1?)
In effective fill rate it will pan it, set up in a quad core flavour ala apple A5x with quad channel memory and newer lpddr 3 1600..it will pan it in bandwidth also.

I don know the amount of geometry rogue can put out in quad core flavour..but if it doesn't beat xenos it will be close.

It depends on what oems put out, bit Sony could redesign a ps vita with rogue and walk over a ps360 using about 4watts if they wanted to.

 

[anexanhume]

It's technology that matters, not frequency and watts, I have no idea if rogue will out do xenos...but hypethetically .. in flops terms it will pan it, in api software terms it will pan it (dx 11.1?)
In effective fill rate it will pan it, set up in a quad core flavour ala apple A5x with quad channel memory and newer lpddr 3 1600..it will pan it in bandwidth also.

I don know the amount of geometry rogue can put out in quad core flavour..but if it doesn't beat xenos it will be close.

It depends on what oems put out, bit Sony could redesign a ps vita with rogue and walk over a ps360 using about 4watts if they wanted to.

And walk over their install base too Unfortunately that ship has sailed. If they had any plans to wait longer and use Rogue, it would have been quashed by the iOS monster. It was launch now or never. And it's still a great handheld. I adore mine. Me and the 37 others who bought it.