Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

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But Wii at its launch had a tech more than 7 years old. And what is the reason to keep the power limit so low? Higher power brings with it higher costs (cooling, packaging, bigger psu), but also much higher performance, and performance was the problem with 3rd party software. I'm not saying they have to launch a 150-200W system, but 100 W is reasonable. There are 100W fanless,single slot card out there. A tweaked/revised RV740 may hit 50W (at 40nm, because i don't think they will use 28nm) and the entire system could fit into 100 W.
But it's true that the devkit doesn't seem power hungry at all. PSU may even be internal
Leaked-3.jpg


Trying to guess it's size.. it's seems around 26-30 cm tall (the optical slit in my imac is 12.5 cm) and 5 to 8 cm tick, which are not far from the original Xbox360 http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8417/Xbox-360-Physical-Dimensions/

Given the size of the box and the size and position of the ventilation hole I'd say that is a wii dev kit?
 
It's a fake...

& if it's not a fake the photo certainly is...

See how they somehow manage to get a rather vivid reflection of the device against the perfectly matte surface of the table...

I quite sure that's impossible...
 
This isn't really true. Xenon has 165m transistors while the 512K version of the Athlon X2 used 221m. Thats a fairly big difference.

Longer pipeline and less transistors in order to achieve much higher clocks.
It doesn't necessarily mean it's a poorer performer.

It's a fake...
& if it's not a fake the photo certainly is...
See how they somehow manage to get a rather vivid reflection of the device against the perfectly matte surface of the table...

I quite sure that's impossible...
Vivid what?!
Oh come on...
 
Core counts and clock speed tell you very little when comparing completely different architectures. For example the 2.4Ghz AX2 was faster than the 3.4Ghz Pentium D which was at that clock speed around the time of the 360's launch.

If both optimised properly and used to their advantages the Athlon X2, and even Pentium D would crush Xenon.

I was actually gaming on an a dual core Opteron 170 @2.5 gHz until January of this year. All I can say is if this is the case, no PC developer seems to know how to optimise for the Athlon X2.

Early on in single threaded stuff, sure it was a lot faster. Stuff like Capcom's Framework engine, that had all the PC sites wet over it's CPU scalability? No. Definitely no.

It's funny to see all the console ports that now require a dual core x2 as a minimum running spec. I doubt it's a coincidence that these are games that benefit from 3 or more cores.

Edit & P.S: That Opteron 170 was a damn good chip, and could still play most of the new stuff at perfectly playable, console like (or slightly better) levels of performance. If you don't expect miracles a decent CPU can last you years on the PC. If Nintendo can land at Llano like levels of performance with their new console they can get decent versions of multiplatform games for years to come.
 
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Vivid what?!
Oh come on...

There's more pics floating around showing it from different angles & it's clear as day that the reflections on the matte surface of the table are tell-tale signs of a fake photo...

I dare you to place a similarly colored object onto a similar style wooden table & tell me if you see the same parrellel-perspective reflection on the surface...

I'd bet any money [on the laws of physics] that you wont...
 
Well my Mac mini had rated power consumption of 85w, it's very small, has a small exhaust hole and was quiet.

No, that rated power from the support pages is, if you read the fine print, the limit of the power supply. Actual power draw of the Mac Minis are between 20-30W, depending on the specific model. The innards have changed quite a bit over the years, but that's the range.
 
And what is the reason to keep the power limit so low? Higher power brings with it higher costs (cooling, packaging, bigger psu), but also much higher performance, and performance was the problem with 3rd party software. I'm not saying they have to launch a 150-200W system, but 100 W is reasonable. There are 100W fanless,single slot card out there. A tweaked/revised RV740 may hit 50W (at 40nm, because i don't think they will use 28nm) and the entire system could fit into 100 W.
But it's true that the devkit doesn't seem power hungry at all. PSU may even be internal

It's a question about priorities, really.
You can either start with a performance target, end up with a (high) power spec, and then work your ass off trying to squeeze that into something living room acceptable. Or you can start out with a power/form factor spec, and then try to make it as performant as possible.
(By the way, I used to own the highest end passive card available - the HD5750. It drew just under 75 W, and was in NO WAY a single slot product. Now I see that Gigabyte has recently launched a passive HD5770. I don't know if they have now been able to drop drive voltages a bit so they get down to 75W as well, but their cooler is even bigger)

Longer and maybe redundant discussion:
You made a good starting list yourself of why high power is undesirable. I would add that high power draw is a negative in and of itself, mostly from an ideological point of view, but also cost and heat generation. The biggest issue for me is noise, I would never have bought either of Sonys or MSs offerings at launch due to noise, even though the Sony was better. Even now I didn't buy a PS3 slim as a BluRay player due to player noise being unacceptable. The smaller physical dimensions made possible by lower power draw is also a positive which is very important to some. Not to mention that heat increases the likelihood of heat related failures and RMA costs throughout the distribution chain.

Cost is greater throughout - as you point out the cooling apparatus needs to be more sophisticated, the packaging needs to be bigger to accommodate it, the PSU is larger and heavier, all of which is costlier in and of itself, but also in shipping/stock keeping. And in the real world, significantly higher heat is likely produced by a larger piece of silicon, again something which raises costs.

The big question is how relevant all of the above is to the end consumer. I'll submit that the clientele here at B3D is extremely insensitive to the drawbacks of high power draw compared to the public at large. :)
That said, if you're doing a mains powered stationary device, going very low in active power draw may be overly restrictive. There are going to be a bunch of things drawing active power in the system anyway so having the GPU draw very little doesn't actually bring a tremendous benefit for the system as a whole, personally I'd prefer a power draw of 30-50W and good, near-silent, cooling along with very low idle power draw.
 
There's more pics floating around showing it from different angles & it's clear as day that the reflections on the matte surface of the table are tell-tale signs of a fake photo...

I dare you to place a similarly colored object onto a similar style wooden table & tell me if you see the same parrellel-perspective reflection on the surface...

I'd bet any money [on the laws of physics] that you wont...

1 - You don't know what kind of wood is in that table
2 - You don't know what kind of wood stain was applied to that wood
3 - You have no idea of what light sources are active in that room (how many, what color, how intense, etc).
4 - Unless you find an obvious color banding displacement in the picture, this discussion is pointless, as are most of the "raiders of the lost photoshop fakes" discussions.
 
No, that rated power from the support pages is, if you read the fine print, the limit of the power supply. Actual power draw of the Mac Minis are between 20-30W, depending on the specific model. The innards have changed quite a bit over the years, but that's the range.

Thanks for clearing that up, I just glanced over the specs :oops:
And yeah I would tone down the number in my estimate a bit now :)
 
Nintendo isn't that concerned with power consumption on a home console, at least not so much more than Sony or MS are. The Wii emphasis on low power foot print was more of a marketing approach, for obvious reasons, more than an enverimontal, user concern or ideal.
 
^ Wouldn't it be better to compare laptop GPUs where power/performance matters significantly more and the form factor and packaging considerations are the same rather than comparing consoles to desktop GPUs where overall power consumption and the ability to cool the chips are both in luxurious abundance relative to desktops.

The fastest single mobile gpu at the moment that you can get is the gtx 485M. The Chip is based on GF104 but with the full 384 CUDA Cores enabled and a 256bit MC, albeit downclocked. Core@575, Shader@1150 and Memory@1500. TDP is rated with 100 Watt. Should be equal in Performance to the 460 GTX.
 
The fastest single mobile gpu at the moment that you can get is the gtx 485M. The Chip is based on GF104 but with the full 384 CUDA Cores enabled and a 256bit MC, albeit downclocked. Core@575, Shader@1150 and Memory@1500. TDP is rated with 100 Watt. Should be equal in Performance to the 460 GTX.

Seems to depend on the game a bit, Mobility 6970 seems to be winning it in some games, while losing in others. It's rated at 75W
 
Nintendo isn't that concerned with power consumption on a home console, at least not so much more than Sony or MS are. The Wii emphasis on low power foot print was more of a marketing approach, for obvious reasons, more than an enverimontal, user concern or ideal.
What they _are_ concerned with is cost. And cooling systems are expensive. The Wii's power envelope had less to do with marketing, and more to do with lower per-unit costs.
 
I wouldn't have thought many varnished wooden tables are perfectly matte. The photo could also have had the reflection brightened to bring it out.

The reflection is fake anyway imo regardles of what the table is like. In the reflection the left most edge show a bright highlight, yet that edge on the console itself does not.
 
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