DuckThor Evil
Legend
I'm quessing 2 sku's for both Ms and Sony 399$/499$ at launch.
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Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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I guess you have a point MS used dead cheap cooling system but it's cost related, they saved $ on everything they could.
But I'm not sure even if possible that a bigger Xenos was the way to make the most of their budget especially if aiming @720p.
With their budget and aiming for 720P as the resolution I believe they should have relied more on fixed function hardware. As I state previously my POV is that they should have passed altogether on "HD ready compliant rendering" PR bull-crap.
I believe they could have gone with only one (big) chip. Something more akin to the PS2 something like:
Some narrow OoO CPu cores 2/3 (an IBM rendition of the ARM A9 as found in Apple A5).
Some Vector processors (like in the ps2 handling vertex workload and various calculations).
A fixed function (up to date) fragment processor.
Some edram on the chip (thus use a compliant process).
A crazy good scaler for its time.
Lower price (or get the price lower sooner) or greater margins.
This goes slightly offtopic, but isn't A5 Samsung/Intrinsity design, not IBM?
Blazkowicz
Legend
jokes notwithstanding, the dreamcast was great on that front, with a RGB cable as standard in euro countries. like the 8-16bit consoles before it, and unlike the PSX, N64 and later consoles.
I dearly miss it, did not have enough time playing it, we found it back dusty and with the drive dead. it was a console that just worked : small, nice looking, top-loading, good normal controllers, a sharp clean 640x480 60fps output rather than a noisy 320x240 at 25 or 20 fps.
I would like quite an equivalent. small, white, good normal controllers, no huge specs but a nice 60Hz with 4x AA, give us standard outputs : VGA, hdmi, composite, RCA audio and mini jack. standard AC power cable as on PCs and other equipment. ethernet, straight USB ports for the controllers.
you don't have to bother including any cable! it can be hooked up to anything in existence already.
low specs. why not do a $99 box?
the tech is so advanced now, you can do a great good enough console.
8GB flash (or the flash cheapness sweet-spot of the day), and additional storage on USB or the home network. (no vendor cost, also my ISP box includes a NAS). the usual media hub crap at no additional cost.
the specs are a flash chip, a SoC, two or four memory chips (?), a PCB and traces on the PCB. (and a DVD drive or BR drive as we've not invented anything better yet)
heck it could have one thing in common with dreamcast : using the biggest PowerVR GPU of the day. or just do SD or 852x480 with the 4x AA sharp output and 60Hz thanks.
I would like such a little box, reasonably open (at least PS3's Other OS but with 1GB memory, so it doubles as a real computer that does office tasks or act as a thin client for a bigger linux box).
fun games, even if or especially if missing the AAA titles! I wish fun, clean looking games, not counting the pixels and grumbling at bilinear filtering seams on the new year's fascistic military shooter, same as last year's one.
I was never attracted to this gen's consoles, all are shoving up hardware for the sake of it. Wii is as guilty as the others with its €80 controllers, and it comes with the crap VHS-like composite (wait, we had a RGB VHS player in 1991. then Santa brought a RGB SNES)
I dearly miss it, did not have enough time playing it, we found it back dusty and with the drive dead. it was a console that just worked : small, nice looking, top-loading, good normal controllers, a sharp clean 640x480 60fps output rather than a noisy 320x240 at 25 or 20 fps.
I would like quite an equivalent. small, white, good normal controllers, no huge specs but a nice 60Hz with 4x AA, give us standard outputs : VGA, hdmi, composite, RCA audio and mini jack. standard AC power cable as on PCs and other equipment. ethernet, straight USB ports for the controllers.
you don't have to bother including any cable! it can be hooked up to anything in existence already.
low specs. why not do a $99 box?
the tech is so advanced now, you can do a great good enough console.
8GB flash (or the flash cheapness sweet-spot of the day), and additional storage on USB or the home network. (no vendor cost, also my ISP box includes a NAS). the usual media hub crap at no additional cost.
the specs are a flash chip, a SoC, two or four memory chips (?), a PCB and traces on the PCB. (and a DVD drive or BR drive as we've not invented anything better yet)
heck it could have one thing in common with dreamcast : using the biggest PowerVR GPU of the day. or just do SD or 852x480 with the 4x AA sharp output and 60Hz thanks.
I would like such a little box, reasonably open (at least PS3's Other OS but with 1GB memory, so it doubles as a real computer that does office tasks or act as a thin client for a bigger linux box).
fun games, even if or especially if missing the AAA titles! I wish fun, clean looking games, not counting the pixels and grumbling at bilinear filtering seams on the new year's fascistic military shooter, same as last year's one.
I was never attracted to this gen's consoles, all are shoving up hardware for the sake of it. Wii is as guilty as the others with its €80 controllers, and it comes with the crap VHS-like composite (wait, we had a RGB VHS player in 1991. then Santa brought a RGB SNES)
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And yet wasn't bundled in when current gen launched, even with BOM of $600-800. Electronics typically cost minimal individually, but they all add up. Just look what needed to be cut from the $299 SKU of Xbox 360 at launch, just to meet the price point and that with MS taking heavy loss and skimping on manufacturing cost that cost them later.
The current Kinect and Move bundle is still selling at $399. Nintendo managed to repackage Gamecube into Wii plus motion control into $250 in similar time frame.
Beisde It's not like X360 or PS3 stop selling after the launched period. So what only a group of people can afford it at launched, it is always their goal to decrease their BOM through out the generation, as long as they keep doing that I just don't see a problem starting at higher price point in the beginning. Better than a gimped next gen console at $399.
Any thoughts on how this Wii2 may impact what Sony/MS do next gen?
Lets say what Sony/MS have now is 1.0 and what they are planning could be called 2.0 in terms of power.
Nintendo releases something that is around 1.5 or 1.75. Do Sony/MS stick with their original plans and go all out or do they save some cash and just reach parity with Nintendo.
Lets say what Sony/MS have now is 1.0 and what they are planning could be called 2.0 in terms of power.
Nintendo releases something that is around 1.5 or 1.75. Do Sony/MS stick with their original plans and go all out or do they save some cash and just reach parity with Nintendo.
I think from the rumors Nintendo is closer to 1.25 and I can't see them doing the latter though they may be forced to go with 1.75 if they are forced to launch sooner then they wanted. The problem with them all going same level as Nintendo is if one breaks rank and goes 2.0 that's a huge selling point assuming that it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount.
If we talking about linearity power...
Only "2.0" ! I was thinking something like range "6.0" to "10.0" at least for a six year ( 2014/2020) console.
Unless Sony and M$ adopted " 1.5 Gamecube=Wii way of life"...in my opinion This is the end of the "hardcore gaming experience".
(yes we talk about many times...but im have afraid Sony and M$ follow "wii style console")
Only "2.0" ! I was thinking something like range "6.0" to "10.0" at least for a six year ( 2014/2020) console.
Unless Sony and M$ adopted " 1.5 Gamecube=Wii way of life"...in my opinion This is the end of the "hardcore gaming experience".
(yes we talk about many times...but im have afraid Sony and M$ follow "wii style console")
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They needed to significantly differentiate the SKUs to justify price points. Including an HDMI cable that 70% of their market (in 2006) couldn't use would have been wasteful, the add-on cable throws a bone to both the consumers (who want the feature) and the brick and mortars (who want the product with 50% markup) that carry their boxes for limited margins. I doubt MS saved $100 on the arcade bundle, a small hard drive and a wireless controller wasn't $100 in costs.
It's always a balance, if you price yourself too high you suffer at the beginning which can cost you developers who need a significant install base. I bought a 360 day 1, but at $700? I still wouldn't own one, there's an expectation of cost for these things that they've established. They can raise it a bit, but double the price and expect to hear crickets at the cash register.
But I'm still not sure what you're talking about needing to be standardized. I've already covered that HDMI cables weren't standard in 2006 because most people wouldn't have been able to use them. MS for example has added some hardware to the box over the generation, because the costs made sense for them, but they weren't at the beginning. Oddly enough Sony mostly went the other direction.
It makes a lot more sense to target the high end with a different SKU and accessories, this stops you from disenfranchising the more frugal customers, who can than amortize their purchase of the life of their console, adding features they feel they need (wireless, wireless controller, HDMI). Obviously certain things will be standard in the future that weren't in 2006, but I expect you'll still see some pricey accessories.
Blazkowicz
Legend
an ungodly amount of consoles are run on SDTV anyway, secondary or main one. I saw an X360 running on a 14" CRT TV.
a cable that half your users won't ever use is millions sunk into a useless, dead cost.
it's better than former gens for the end user, you buy a generic €5 cable rather than a €29 official RGB cable or a €19 hard-to-find 3rd party one.
this is good and to be approved of, so the console vendor loses on overpriced cables but no one was buying them in the first place
my favorite would be the VGA plug, the cable is built-in in the monitors I pick up on the street.
I wasn't thinking linear.
More like if MS and Sony were planning on 4GB of RAM and Wii2 shows up with 2GB.
Surely there are some of us who won't be surprised. :3
Oh, few pages ago i posted a link to a neogaf thread where a supposed AMD worker was saying that they were finalizing the specification for a new console system based on a next-generation Fusion chip, that will launch in the end of 2012. It didn't say which one, as the current rumors states, i can't be Nintendo. It's hard to believe that Microsoft will launch in 2012, but who knows, a new generation console won't steal Xbox360 momentum right away.
Apple bought Intrisity. The A5 is Apple/Intrisity implementation of ARM A9 found in the IPad 2. They passed on the Neon/SIMD unit but implemented a pipeline FPU. What I meant "by IBM rendition" is something close to this, a narrow OoO CPU without SIMD, something tiny and power efficient clock at an acceptable speed.
In regard to Samsung it's possibly the founder use by Apple for the A5 I don't remember for sure and I'm still no woken up enough to do a search... Saturday night fever ...
This post?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26403963&postcount=464
So Cafe/Wii 2 have performance almost like Zacate and "X720" probably base in Krishna fusion II?
We can expect for "X720" APU/cpgpu (with 2/4GB RAM) something like 50% more GTX 460 performance levels?
I know in closed box console * performance could be much more but we can especulate a little bit
* http://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/226781-ea-benchmarks-ps2-vs-xbox-vs-gcn-vs-pc.html
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If anything it's going the other way. Now Nintendo sees the error of low power console and wants to join big boys.
Wait, what do you know Alstrong...
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