Official February 20, 2013 Playstation event

[patsu]

I think with the high power specs, the best case is the developers can change up their assets and scripts quickly, so they are not stuck with lousy ideas because they can't afford to change/improve. I hope the workflow is solid enough. It would also free them to try more ideas, hopefully at a cheaper cost.

Have to repeat myself. Someone should start doing seamless Internet + gaming integration.

 

[liolio]

Sounds like the guy doesn't really understand much of what he's talking about to me. AMD's approach in the PC space is pretty similar to Intels. He's suggesting PC's should start using GDDR5 for system memory and that system memory should be non expandable? Mmm okay.

indeed as far as GPU (as IGP) are concerned I see no disadvantage on INtel side outside of their willingness to spend more silicon on the GPU and overall.
Intel GPU have gone a long way, though it seems that drivers are not helping their case either.
Anyway if market were to swift toward "more GPU" Intel has definitely what it takes to react accordingly.

 

[3dilettante]

I've already brought up the idea of a PS-card, or Xbox-card (or putting both in the same system). It could even do one better by relying on the existing PC's infrastructure to reduce costs, or would if it weren't obvious that the console companies want a lot more control over their platforms.

It doesn't seem to be technically infeasible; I don't think.
As far as memory, at 8 GB it's likely more than satisfactory for most consumer use cases.

 

[deathindustrial]

Have to repeat myself. Someone should start doing seamless Internet + gaming integration.

The flipside of that is that we are talking about an always on server on your LAN running Webkit (probably) that you have little control over. So will all Webkit exploits become PS4 exploits as well? I am all for having a decent browser, it is more the "always on" and backgound network features that make me nervous considering Sony's history in the PC space (as in abysmal software outside of stuff they have bought like the renamed Sound Forge / Vegas).

Cheers

 

[patsu]

The flipside of that is that we are talking about an always on server on your LAN running Webkit (probably) that you have little control over. So will all Webkit exploits become PS4 exploits as well? I am all for having a decent browser, it is more the "always on" and backgound network features that make me nervous considering Sony's history in the PC space (as in abysmal software outside of stuff they have like the renamed Sound Forge / Vegas).

Cheers

Yap, security will be important. WebKit will need to be sandboxed. With the PC-like architecture, it should be easy to keep WK up-to-date.

They can set your PS4 WebKit to always go through Sony proxies as another line of defense.

If people are concerned with web breakins from WK, they can simply not run the web browser. It's similar to webcam. If you are not comfortable, just unplug it when not using actively (like me !).

Background downloading on PS3 doesn't install binaries. I imagine if they allow installation as part of background download (like PS+), they would be partitioned from the other activities.

 

[patsu]

I've already brought up the idea of a PS-card, or Xbox-card (or putting both in the same system). It could even do one better by relying on the existing PC's infrastructure to reduce costs, or would if it weren't obvious that the console companies want a lot more control over their platforms.

It doesn't seem to be technically infeasible; I don't think.
As far as memory, at 8 GB it's likely more than satisfactory for most consumer use cases.

They can try Playstation Vaio and Xperia Vita someday.

 

[wco81]

Yoshida seemed cagey about the no blocking of used games bit. Like Sony games won't do it but 3rd-party publishers could.

The event left many key questions unanswered.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Yoshida seemed cagey about the no blocking of used games bit. Like Sony games won't do it but 3rd-party publishers could.

The event left many key questions unanswered.

EA is going to require online pass, you can bet on that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Point with the backward compatibility through GaiKai is not just that the hardware can or cannot do it, but that it is 'instant on' with anything from the catalog.

Sound good, but I expect that in reality it'll be pretty wishwashy. The whole Gaikai thing was "we hope and this is our vision". What actually materialises out of that is something else. *IF* there's the full catalogue to stream in high quality and without lag, great. If, instead, my ISP limits my BW so I can't play what I want to when I want to, and most of the library isn't ported to PC emulators because no-one can be bothered, then their dreams of PlayStation on every device won't be worth anything like as much as an OS level emulator on PS4. I'd much prefer that myself.

 

[Kaotik]

Sounds like the guy doesn't really understand much of what he's talking about to me. AMD's approach in the PC space is pretty similar to Intels. He's suggesting PC's should start using GDDR5 for system memory and that system memory should be non expandable? Mmm okay.

Would work great for the general public and be most likely leaps and bounds better than current OEM "gaming PCs" sold.
Enthusiasts are a breed of their own, obviously, and office machines obviously wouldn't benefit from this that much.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Sound good, but I expect that in reality it'll be pretty wishwashy. The whole Gaikai thing was "we hope and this is our vision". What actually materialises out of that is something else. *IF* there's the full catalogue to stream in high quality and without lag, great. If, instead, my ISP limits my BW so I can't play what I want to when I want to, and most of the library isn't ported to PC emulators because no-one can be bothered, then their dreams of PlayStation on every device won't be worth anything like as much as an OS level emulator on PS4. I'd much prefer that myself.

Are they talking about using Gaiki for demos? A friend of mine raised an interesting point, in wondering if technologically illiterate people, that don't understand what Gaiki is, will think network lag is actually a buggy or poor performing game. Sony can't reinvent the Internet, so lag will be an issue for many people.

I'm also expecting the Gaiki thing to be a paid service, or part of a paid tier of PSN. It's way too expensive to roll out for "free."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Are they talking about using Gaiki for demos?

Yes. Go on store and try, streaming the game from a server before deciding you like and buying the native game.

 

[Nesh]

Yoshida seemed cagey about the no blocking of used games bit. Like Sony games won't do it but 3rd-party publishers could.

The event left many key questions unanswered.

Well they had to leave something for E3 and also see what the competition will do before they finalize

Not to mention that they dont want to give away any information outside, that the competition might use proactively against them.

Regardless, I think the event showed brilliant stuff. The only problem was how the event was presented. The tech demos and the games they showed actually looked outstanding. And this time as it seems, no target renders. They are supposed to be genuine. Which is actually a huge plus and a huge reason to be even more excited.
The features? The new services? Great.
But the pace was kind of boring and the presenters werent natural they were trying to recollect their rehearsed words killing the momentum. They didnt convey the excitement they should have conveyed for such a huge unveiling which is the opposite of what we were (or at least I was) used to from Sony.
They shouldnt have given so much time to the audience to "take breaths" through boring talks. They should have kept them at the edge of their seats, with shorter talks and more showing. The sequence in which they decided to show each unveiling gave too much room to breathe in between the big unveilings which were supposed to impress.

But I must say that I am very impressed by the level of detail in the games and demos they showed.
Loved the fire effects in Deep Down, the particles and lighting in Infamous, how real-like light passes through the shiny ice in the Unreal Tech demo, the fact that Agni's Philosophy appeared to run effortlessly on the hardware, the detail in the cars in Drive Club, the skin shading and Subsurface scattering on the human face, the unbelievably huge scale in Killzone 3 and in general the painstaking detail in the demonstrations that showcased the capabilities of the hardware. Truly surpassed my expectations.
I had fears that what we would see would have been games that looked as good as the current best looking PC games in the market. Considering the discussions that took place in the forums that this time around it would be harder to get X amount of Y type of memory and Z performance in a closed box at an affordable price that did not produce too much heat, I wasnt expecting this.
Now all I want is to see these games actually looking that good during gameplay to ease my worries that Sony doesnt pull a 2005 E3 again

 

[patsu]

Are they talking about using Gaiki for demos? A friend of mine raised an interesting point, in wondering if technologically illiterate people, that don't understand what Gaiki is, will think network lag is actually a buggy or poor performing game. Sony can't reinvent the Internet, so lag will be an issue for many people.

Yes it would be like NetFlix. For demoes and LAN streaming first. I would love to see some games streamed to non-Playstation devices as well.

To reduce network lag, the servers will most likely be hosted in your ISP backbone. So you only hit local network. And PS3 games are tuned for 802.11g. With better technologies, we hope they will be ok for short demoes. The performance will also depend on server load.

Once they work out the kinks for streaming demoes, then they look at full games.


In the mean time, older PS games will be instant play via progressive download instead of streaming.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yes it would be like NetFlix. For demoes and LAN streaming first. I would love to see some games streamed to non-Playstation devices as well.

To reduce network lag, the servers will most likely be hosted in your ISP backbone. So you only hit local network. And PS3 games are tuned for 802.11g. With better technologies, we hope they will be ok for short demoes. The performance will also depend on server load.

Once they work out the kinks for streaming demoes, then they look at full games.


In the mean time, older PS games will be instant play via progressive download instead of streaming.

Is signing deals with the major ISPs the world over really realistic? There's no way Gaiki comes without a subscription fee. There's no way they'll sell enough old BC games to support that network, and no one is gonna pay per demo. If is does end up being free to the consumer, I have no idea how they're going to pay for it.

 

[patsu]

Based on an earlier Gaikai article, they already setup their servers in 300 data centers in 2010.

For pricing, they can do subscription (akin to PS+ full game trial), or pay-per-game (like online pass), or sponsorship and other models. Gaikai is not tied to business model. As you saw in the demo, they did free LAN streaming also.

 

[AlphaWolf]

They'll sell pseye videos of nerds in their boxers.

 

[Scott_Arm]

NSFW language

 

[patsu]

They'll sell pseye videos of nerds in their boxers.

I bet virtual foreign girlfriend service and distant learning will work better.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Based on an earlier Gaikai article, they already setup their servers in 300 data centers in 2010.

For pricing, they can do subscription (akin to PS+ full game trial), or pay-per-game (like online pass), or sponsorship and other models. Gaikai is not tied to business model. As you saw in the demo, they did free LAN streaming also.

Gaiki not tied to business model? What?

I'm guessing subscription. No one is going to buy Killzone 4 (or other next-gen games) for Gaiki, and otherwise it's going to be full of PS3, PS2, PS1 games and demos, all things which no one is going to pay significant money for. Subscription seems to be the only way to really pay for it. The thing is, maybe your subscription lets you play all the PS1, PS2 and PS3 games you want, which is pretty cool if you're into playing old games.