NPD April 2008 (Post #16)

I dunno. In the case of the Wii, the buzz was immediate and it came from traditional gamers and traditional gaming media. The people who were lined up for hours to get them at launch are not what I'd call casual gamers. The Wii has had success with gamers. As word of mouth spread, I'm sure casual interest grew. But all this talk that gamers don't buy the Wii or play the way is stupid. I'm sure there are more parents and casual gamers buying it for their kids, which is probably where the big difference in sales comes from. If I had a young kid, I wouldn't be buying her an expensive HD console.

 

Even without the 1 billion write off, the 360 represent billions in investment and they have recoup about 600 million and we sitting 2.5 years into the generation and 20 million 360 consoles. The 360 has a slim chance of breaking even and thats with Sony initially offering an extremely high priced console. Imagine if Sony would have released a DVD based PS3, you think MS pricing strategy would have revolved around 1 $50.00 pricecut 24 months after release.

The 360 dropping out doesn't automatically mean those sales go to PS3 and vice versa. Some of the current 360 userbase may have been turn off by a $600.00 console and some of the current PS3 userbase may have not entered a console race without the inclusion of BluRay.

The PS2 isn't made up of 130 million hardcore gamers and Halo and GTA are what many would call mainstream franchises with market wide support.

 

If someone was 16 and own almost every system made since 1972 and almost all the software for those systems, played them regularly and yet didn't own a 360 or PS3 then you wouldn't call them hardcore.

A large fraction of hardcore gamers love visual as it is a sign of technical advancement but the hardcore gamers are the first to regularly play systems long neglected and forgotten by the mainstream.

The ultimate hardcore gamer would own all three systems as visual quality isn't the sole variable that these type of gamers weigh when playing games.

 

Exactly, Nintendo are so far out of MS's reach at this point they should concentrate on the battle for second with Sony.

 

Of course, HL2 and Halo 2 first showings had lines too... as they are highly anticipated games. But that doesn't diminish the fact that people were racing pass the sequel to the best-ever selling console, to get to a sequel for what is generally regarded as a failed console. That's like the paparazzi running pass Brad Pitt & Angelina Jolie's babies, just to get pictures of Nicole Richie's baby.

And many will say that lines for the Wii were some of the longest ever seen at E3.

At neogaf, that's known as "hardly-core."

 

At neogaf, if you are unable to recite the attack sequences in ten boss battles from Japanese imports from the 16-bit era, you aren't allowed in the building.

 

I dont think the movie argument is totally accurate as it would be like comparing the nes to a ps3. Yes ofcourse there is a big difference between those. But is there such a big difference between the wii and the ps3? If you take advantage of the wii hardware, will there be such a dramatic difference to what it cant do compared to the ps3? No there wont be I think, they are not in a totally different leaugeu. Not even compared to the ps2 I think. The only thing next gen has shown us so far is exactly the same games only better looking. GTA4 really isnt that big of a difference compared to the ps2 gta's.

Also immersion of gfx only goes so far. I'm currently playing max payne again, which is from 2001 I think. It still looks good and immersive today. Will it become more immersive if it was build to ps3 specs? I dont think so. Alot of what makes the game so immersive goes far beyond what poly's and high res textures will do. Just making things look better doesnt make it more immersive. Gameplay, game design and art design do those things. Ofcourse that means that if you take all those and have the best hardware it will be better than on a lesser machine but there is no reason Wii games cant be as immersive as ps3 games just because they wont look as good.

Ask yourself fairly, how long are you ''wowed'' by gfx? I get used to what I see pretty quick and after that its just normal and I dont go WOW anymore. That it becomes the same to me as the lower gfx games from earlier (to a certain extend ofcourse, a n64 or psx game wont do that anymore for me because the gap is to big).

Oh please stop that argument already. Its excuse #328445345. If most of the wii owners are new to videogames than why did Red steel sold over a million? why did RE4 (released for like the 5th time) sold a million? why did RE: UC sold somewhere close to a million? Why did Mario galaxy sold millions? why did Zelda sold millions? why does Mario kart continue to sell millions? These are all classic games that by your argument wii owners wont have interest in because they hated those games before so they wont suddenly like them now. But than please explain me to who all those millions of classic games are sold if you say that most wii owners (with most I think 60+%) are new to consoles.

Like it or not but plenty of ''real'' gamers are buying the wii.

 

Correction then. The majority of Wii owners are very possibly people new to videogames, people not much into videogames, and people that are Nintendo loyal fans which should explain why these games sell by the millions as they were intended to on a GC as well which didnt have a huge install base.

The word "plenty" is a very subjective word if no definition is given.

 

Well, you'd be hard press to find a game with a boss fight in today's so called hardcore games. Today's gamers just want to give themselves a label to think they're cool. Back in the old days, it really did come down to your achievements. There's definitely nothing wrong with overcoming a game while overcoming a language barrier. I myself have beaten 11 Fire Emblem games in Japanese without knowing a lick of Japanese.

 

That's one way to put it, but a tad bit inflammatory and I also think it misses the original point. In a lot of ways, we are seeing two distinct overall markets with some overlap. If MS pandered to Nintendo's market with the Wii in any reasonable fashion, they run a very realistic risk of alienating their current userbase (myself included). The last thing this industry needs is more mass-market shovelware in the name of "cheap development costs" with twitchy controllers. One overwhelming success is enough there.

 

You know what's interesting.... maybe most Wii households have two [or three] Wiis instead of one. One for the kids (Hannah Montana, etc.), one for mom and dad (Wii Fit, Wii Play, etc.) [and one for the Nintendo core gamer. (Galaxy, Brawl, etc.)] This multiplier effect, may push the Wii to 300 million units when all is said and done.

 

So you think that parents today are better informed about gaming than parents 6 years ago? Perhaps. We are long past the point at which today's parents are yesterday's kid gamers. I think we are also past the point at which traditional non-gamers have found a place in their lives for gaming - the explosion of flash gaming already happened. I think the Wii is just tapping into some of these emerging trends, rather than being come new unexpected phenomenon.

 

I dont think thats what he is saying. What he is saying is that the PS2 was all there was in the previous gen. PS2 had the largest install base, almost any game kids wanted to play, it had the brand name, it had basically everything.

If there was one console that was most likely for a parent to buy for his kid it was the PS2 as it was with the PS1.

This gen, another console appears that targets better the kids than its competitors. Price is undoubtedly more attractive, kids get excited with the new concept, it has what kids are most likely want, it is advertised accordingly. The parent listens to his kids. And even if the kid doesnt tell the parent what he/she wants, seeing all three consoles in store the Wii will most likely express what he thinks is most appropriate and fun for an underage.

The parent doesnt necessarily have to be more informed. Parents are just informed on simple, easily observable and directly experienced concepts that are easily and openly viewed by anyone.

Then again I could be wrong

 

that is exactly what I was saying.

 

I'd bet a lot of people who refer to themselves as hardcore gamers do prefer graphics quality over gameplay.. The fact that what they profess to be and what they prefer contradict each other is no doubt lost on them. Maybe a better title would be hardcore graphics fans

To be clear I know graphics can be a very important aspect of a game, they can bring you into a game world and help to engrose you. However I seriously can't understand how anyone can call themselves a hardcore gamer when they believe that gameplay itself is of secondary importance...

 

What if they are of equal importance?

A comparison can be made to books. Some people just read books for the story alone, and don't really care how this story is delivered. Some people read books for the quality of the writing as well of the story. I fall into the latter here, games with terrific graphics are simply more immersive to me.

There are obviously ways to get around this on the Wii, and that's to stylize games heavily. MadWorld looks fantastic, for instance. The problem I have is the VAST majority of Wii games just end up looking like dated console or PC games, and to me it's the equivalent of reading a book written on a 8th grade English level instead one written on a university-level.

 

I never quite understood the appeal of the wii... Are there any games for the system that people who like (action for example) games can play? That actually play well with the wiimote? I will confess that I never paid any attention to the system or the games available, but up to now, it seems to me that hype alone is selling it...
Are there any AAA titles that define the console and are aimed at a more "mature" gamer?

It seems to me that MS and Sony were beaten this gen by a competitor that does not compete with them... Or at least does not compete at all fronts... That this is either a console for a completely different type of gamer or the new iPod that (to me at least) doesn't deliver...
Of course all these have been said countless times all ready... The wii is the king of the hill this gen. But I'm not convinced that this is the way the industry must follow.

And in regards to gameplay vs graphics on a thread heavy on "wii", is the wiimote that revolutionary that every game out there became shallow in comparison?! Are we confusing innovation with gameplay? Is the wii going to give me more in regards to gameplay when playing an FPS? Were those PC ***boys right all those years about the K/M combo?!!!

Sincerelly confused...

 

Before forming an opinion it'd be a good idea to research the situation. . Wii's stereotypically party-game orientated but that's not all its got. There's Metroid Prime and Excite Truck as two off-the-cuff suggestions. The most telling thing for me is that major titles like Galaxies and Brawl don't use the Wiimote to great effect. It's as though Wii has two modes of operating - conventional for conventional games, and pointer for Wii specific game like Boom Blox. But really, you want to look up Wii's library (VG Chartz is good for something!) and see what there matches your interests.

 

Metroid Prime and Zelda (mostly), are the 2 games that could be appealling to me, other than that I can't see anything released right now or in the horizon that could hype me enough to get the machine... Wii fit seems, ...interesting..., but it's not a game now, is it?
I remember being excited when I saw those videos of that launch fps yakuza themed game (can't rember it's name) but, boy were those comercials missleading... And the reviews made me forget the games name name now that I think about it...

I can only hope that MS and Sony won't follow Ns huge success next gen... I apologize to all the big N fans out there... To me it seems that to buy a wii, you either have to be a kid (let's face it, what you want is one of those other consoles but your parents bought it for you ), or you like Nintendos titles and can't stop yourself from buying yet another remake of RE4!